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 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 13:01:57
  well, the medium one chooses (clip art, cartooning, painting, photography, a stick in the dirt) means far less than what and how things are said. it's about communication, and VOICE. jeff's voice is brilliant and beautiful in these srappy little pieces of junk slapped together. frank's voice comes out uniquely and brazenly no matter how he chooses to express it. same is true for all the best work. the lesser work is the work that masks the voice behind technique or the means to reaching that end. we all get lost behind our mediums, and we all consider it works that aren't as good (i.e. 'fail'). that's when i ask for help. or look for inspiration to get myself out of that hole. sometimes that means listening to those who point out perceived weaknesses. of course, they have to command a little respect from before i listen too closely.

isn't that the point of all of this? if not, why are we bothering?

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 12:35:32
  frank -

i wouldn't touch what you just said with a 20 foot pole.

kozik can get away with murder.

chach -

well, if you think it's fun to be rude to people like me, then your going to be pretty lonely in the long run.

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 12:25:55
  chach -

i really do wish you could see that i'm not attcking you or jeff. to critique and challenge is not the same thing as to belittle and name-call. please please see the difference here. i like you (and even still like jeff, damn him).

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 12:16:05
  gooch -

it's not an 'evisceration', it's a challenge. i'm not trying to kill jeff, i'm trying to push him into taking another step.

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 12:13:58
  jeff -

interesting. i didn't know.

best of luck.

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 12:08:07
  and this will be my last comment on this as well.

i really don't understand how you can say you're not passing judgement on me and then (with all due DISrespect) tell me to pull the cork from my ass. you obviously haven't a clue as to what my entire 'career' has been about. so, fine. it's still your narrow little view on life that you want to cling to, so be it.

as for jeff's work i can see why you defend his current stylistic position because it is so incredible similar in style and execution to your own that you'd can only set his early work's similarity to mine. but to say he's 'evolved' as a designer is really not looking at what really matters in this stuff. and to suggest i haven't evolved as a designer is completely missing the point of what it is i do. so, fine. you like his current work.

i personally like his current work, but finding lacking soul. i also like his old work and find it bristling with soul, but lacking finesse of craftsmanship (on a superficial level. it's actually very difficult to do his early kind of work so well). also, i have the advantage of watching him grow from a terrible design-school portfolio to an exquisite free-form expressionist back to a design-school expressionist. that's backtracking in my book.

aa's work is beautiful. you're among my favorite designers on this site. but you design-school academic regimentation shows a little too hard. in five years, it'll be fun to see what you folks are up to.

art

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 11:44:10
  chach -

i can see how you feel, but you really don't get what's going on here - and now you want to judge me. ok, fine, it's your life. but keep in mind you really don't know what it is you're passing judgement on.

as for posting, i don't have scan of my work to post. remeber i don't know how to use computers (yet). it would be a huge amount of work to set it all up for your ease of viewing. my work is very widely published. if you want to see it, it's very easy to find. do a google search on "art chantry" (with quotes) and you'll find lotsa stuff, or better yet, go look in a book.

art

ps - i know it may be too personal to do on this sight, but jeff and i go way back and this is the only place we talk. besides, i don't think it's all that personal. if it makes you squiddly, don't read it.

 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith
art chantrySend art chantry a message 2002-05-16 11:25:26
  chach -

well, to an outsider it may look that way. but between jeff and me, we know you couldn't be more wrong. my dialog i'm pitching at jeff is meant to be a stiff challenge to what i know he's capable of. he could be world-class if he can just make that next frightful step. i've been waiting ten years for him to do it, and he seems stuck. so, i brought out my 2x4.

art

ps - jeff, you know what i'm saying.

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