i'm a sloppy typist. i just noted a typo that's pretty important to correct in what i last wrote.
the second to last thing i wrote was supposed to say "IT very very rare rarely works that way." the way it's posted originally looks like was saying i DON"T work that way, which is not true. i'm every bit as sloppy as you guys. i make the big mistake of trusting people and then learning the hard way whether that trust is well placed or not. what i've learned that it is almost human nature to get things for free at all costs (!) even really honest nice caring folks will screw you in the pursuit of self-interest. no harm intended, but they will bulldoze you if that ol' "blue-light special" is flashing. it's almost a lizard-brain thing.
so, when two fanboy poster artists see an opportunity to do a cool poster, they will BOTH become self-righteously blinded in pursuit of that goal. so will the promoter, so will the band. but the only folks getting taken advantage of here are the artists. spot the difference. otherwise, your time and talent are worthless freebie stuff.
i've learned this from EXPERIENCE. if you don't value your art and give it away for free, nobody else will value it very much either. when you place a price - ANY price - on it, it is magically an object of value in 'their' eyes (even if it's a lousier piece of art than the freebie). it's human nature in a capitalist system.
avoid duplication. get paid something - anything. get a real agreement with the promoter so there is no misunderstanding and they will see you as providing something of value that they can't get somewhere else. PLACE A VALUE ON YOUR WORK! if you don't nobody else will - no matter haw good you are.
cracks me up. i bring up this "authenticity" oe "multiple poster" problem and i get pegged as a territorial whining paranoid negative prick. it happens to you and you guys get all righteous and upset and then get even more upset that you get called on it in 'public'. make up yer fucking minds. this sort of thing is either good or bad, but quit dogging each other and calling names. just DISCUSS what happened and put it into your experience and try to better next time. just keep in mind what can happen if you are not thorough about doing the "biz" side of things. the whole point behind an 'business agreement' (aka 'contract') is to eliminate surprises - especially surprises like this .
the bottom line is that promoters can be extremely sloppy and have been notoriously sleazy throughout rock history. they will be very happy to have ten different cool FREE posters to sell their show and sell as swag themselves. it all means MORE MONEY in their pockets. it's not about art' and 'loyalty' - don't be stupid. it's not about fandom. most promoters are running a business. most of us, on the other hand, are giving our art away in the vague hopes of getting rich and famous in the (near) future. i very very rarely works that way. wise up.
lindsay - i've never been about money. i've always been about what's fair. it's hard to discuss this kind of issue without looking like a greedhead. that was never my point.
also, i used this as an example simply because i thought i knew what happened. your comments prove to me i didn't know the whole story and you filled in some BIG holes i was unaware were even there. actually your comments have made me question a few other relationships.
so, anyway, i hope you don't think this was all about attacking you personally or about money in particlular. i don't care about money (except survival) and i like you and love your work. i was only attempting to bring up a sticky issue for discussion. the track of this discussion only points out how touchy a nerve i was going after.
i still stand the same on my base issue about what makes a legit poster and what is a crass affort to cash in on a band's name. it's an issue on this site that will never go away.
erich werner did these amazing blackouts posters. he formed one of seattle's very ealiest punk bands back in 1975 (the telepaths) and they turned into the blackouts. the band split for san francisco (to survive) and erich split off. the band tried to continue with a move to boston and chicago and then met up with a guy name of al jourgensen and formed ministry. essentially ministry was the blackouts with al singing.
erich ended up living on the streets. when i sent him a copy of my 'instant litter' book (these posters were in it), he sent it back with a note scribbled on it, "i no longer care for material possessions'. i guess he eventually got treatment or something cuz last i heard he was doing all right as a computer programmer or something.
dennis white was instrumental is building the seattle punk scene. he started pravda records with maire masco, probably did more posters than any other artist in seattle (and saved none of them), booked a bazillion bands into the central and the gorilla gardens and wrex, and went on to manage david thomas (of pere ubu) and the del rubio triplets. he finally ave up and went into construction. this was about two years before the seattle scene made milliona. great timing.
he aso was involved with the ny scene (he lived above the pyramid club) and i guess his cousin (who was living with at the time) heard about punk in london and went to start a band and became rat scabies. or something like that. dennis lived a big odd life.
he did this lettering with strips of black tape (border tape).