does anyone else get tired of hearing about how a band "sold out?" if a band is making the same sound they were making before they got big is that there fault or are they suppose to change now that they got fat? or is it defined by if they are on a big label now and not driving to gigs in the same piss smellin van that they drove in high school? the only band that i can think of that did everything their way is Fugazi. what do you think defines sell out? green day always gets nailed with this.....
greenday is the whipping boy for being punk, then they arent because they go global..
excuse them for making the same music and having more people exposed to them..
any band that leaves indie, is a sell out according to many circles..
sooooooooooo..... lets apply it here... is an artist a sell out if they make more money than they need to pay rent in a small apt and eat food? nah.. but thats what happens with bands....
heck bleach by nirvana was great, and so is nevermind.. did they sell out, or was it something that more people wanted to consume.. sometimes major labels expose the masses to better music, and SOMETIMES they cram shit down your throat..
Yea...thats always made me sick...everybody yells 'sell out' when a band gets a big fanbase and isnt living in their own filth anymore.
I agree with something Vibranium said recently on another thread: who signs with a label to NOT make money/get fame? If youre in a band just because its ALL about the music...then dont sign with a label...Or let em record and press your albums for free.
I think there are 2 ways of looking at it: the IAN MCKAYE way and the HENRY ROLLINS way.
-IAN- No shortcuts, no deals, no corporate involvement, no corporate advertising = still driving in the bus (albeit a nice bus), playing for little profit, and in most sectors...still in relative obscurity.
-HENRY- TV deals, corporate record deals, movie deals, book deals, appearances on news shows, appearances on talk shows, and known to many folks, even outside of the punk/alternative circuit...'The big punk rock singer-guy with all the tattoos' (thats what my Mom calls him).
These are 2 guys who came from the EXACT same place...down to the same neighborhood...but one took the 'keep-it-real' route and the other took a route that Ive heard MANY call the 'sell-out' route. Im not saying one is better than the other or one is right or one is wrong...it just shows that you cant judge every case by that same 'sell-out' rule that people in the punk/indie community throw around TOO MUCH.
I think its less about the change in music because the music doesnt really change that much- Sonic Youth, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Mudhoney,At The Drive In, Modest Mouse, Built To Spill, Elliot Smith, Green Day, Beck.. the list goes on.. i think its more about some fans that were there in the begining and want the band to be theirs and dislike seeing the bands name on t shirts in the mall... on the other hand selling out has done harm, Nirvana was forced to rerecord In Utero and when it was released was asked to change a song and album artwork so it would sell at Walmart. Dreamworks dropped Elliot Smith because they didnt like his new album, i think dreamworks (i could be wrong) dropped Wilco for the same reason. At the Drive In broke up because they didnt want to be that big and it was ripping them up internally, I guess it all has its good and bad points. Sometimes a major label can be very detremental to a bands music because they have a big contract hanging over the musicians heads.
Good example with the Rollins/McKay thing. Even though Henry is really still doing the same shtick (scarring the middle class) that he's always done--it's a little harder to believe his conviction when you see him in a Gap ad. Perverse, but not as believable.
And I really think Pearl Jam are big sell outs especially after they changed their name to Creed and started writing super shitty songs. Oops. Wrong thread.
Captain Nappy, Jermaine, you guys are young, huh? Raised on MTV? Buy your Docs at the mall on mommys credit card? $35 tickets for a Limp Bizkit show sound good to you? Man, does Carson Dailey have you wrapped,...
Selling out isnt about making $, or sounding the same, its about selling your SOUL to corporate assholes who A) Rip off bands making huge profits for themselves while treating artists like Velvetta or other KMart products B) Control what the public sees & hears, & has tons of conflict of interests since they own all the news media outlets that review thier products C) Uses these profits to promote all kinds of things that bands are singing against, like nuclear war, right wing government, & Big Brother tactics. D) Dictate to the market even the tecnologies that are to be used, like the way the companies refused to take back vinyl stock so they could promte CD tech, which they also owned & made redicluous profis on E) Control the price, making much much more $ per item than in the days of vinyl F) Buy up outlets from fanzines, distro houses, & now venues to control everything from whos tickets get sold where, to what ads are displayed where in every record store, & who plays where,.... more importantly, who DOESN'T play where!
Why do you think that your local radio never plays original music, instead you hear the sae song at the top of every hour in every city from coast to coast? Why is it every national record has the same front counter display of every flavor of the week band? Why is it that the magazine, like Time, will review movies, CDs, & TV shows, for all these same things that they all own? Do you think that its coincidence when you see a Warner Brothers made movie, every band on there is a WB band? That get special guest spots on WB shows on TV? & good reviews in the dozens of WB owned magazines? Or on AOL pop up ads, also owned by WB? Or in DC comics ads, also owned by WB? See where I'm going with all this? Time Warner was voted one of the worst employee violators by the Ralph Nader public interest groups, they have joint CEO's on some of the biggest oil companies on the planet, like Exxon,... other companies are just as bad, like EMI, the Britsih electrical contractors who build nuclear power plants & have munition subdivisions that manufacture all the targeting equipment for Englands nuclear arsenal,... they own Virgin Atlantic & all their tiny "indy" subdivisions,... Sony owns plants in Indonesia under military dictators that practice genocide, & have factory workers assembling CD players 14 hours a day for $1 a day pay,... are these the people that you want to associate with? How hollow are all your cries of anarchy & rebellion going to sound when the money you make the man is paying for political campaign contributions that will strip you of your own freedoms? Think about it!
When any band signs to a big label, what theyre recieving is blood money. Even bands that do ake a lot of money, percentage wise, they make a pittance compared to the sheer raw profit that the label makes. The label fronts the band $ at the signing of the contracts, but everything after that is paid for by the band; if a band doesnt move a sick amount of units their first time out, they'll be indebted to the label for years to come, like indentured servants, they'll have to march to all the labels orders, as to how they look to what theyre lyrics wil be. Look at Godsmack fer chrissakes, they do promos for the US Navy! They arent rebelling aaginst the man, they are the man! Nuff said!
When "punk" bands like Green Day sell out, its because ever since 1975, an entire genetration of people globally built up that scene with blood & sweat, many never profiting from it, just to have a music scene. Venues, labels, distro houses, record stores, underground radio, all done at a grassroots level, for almost 3 decades, all done out of pocket the pockets of people who did it for political reasons, or for love, or just for the fuck of it. Fugazi still does it, but theyre far from the only band who stayed indy,... back in the day, most likley before your parents met, EVERY band was indy!Bands like Black Flag made their rep traveling from coast to coast in a $300 van with no windows, selling 7" vinyl, hand made tshirts, & thats IT! It was the scene that made that possible. Back in that day, thats all it took, if you had heart made a loud noise, the fanzines would promote you, the kids would let you crash, feed you, then sneak your single on to college radio. & You could see a shitload of great bands for cheap. Everything was attainable. Aceesible. For the people, by the people. DIY. Now, even if you wantde to go that route, everything from the basement recording studios to those tiny xeroxed fanzines to the sleasy clubs are all owned by the SAME people. And you gave it to them! More imporatntly, bands like Green Day, who came up through strictly indy venues, didn't have the right to give it to them. Thats why people get pissed. People with the tiniest shred of integrity, anyway.
*sigh* This of course is going to sound like the most tired old dribble to seasoned veterans who've got the shark bite scars to show for playing with the predator music industry. I also suppose that you've never been what? Censored? Plagurized? Arrested? The shop I work at, we had to legalize tattooing in our town, nice to be in a profession thats older than written language, but still outlawed. NYC street artists, over 700 arrests last year for selling artwork on the streets, all their art confiscated & disapperaed, & 48 hours spent in the Tombs with real criminals, never to be brought up on formal charges! California trying to make grafitti a felony, combined with their 3 strikes plicy, a minor could get LIFE in prison for painting!
I mean, seriously, guys, who's side are you on? What site is this, this is Gig Posters, right, not the Young Republicans??
Oy vey! I've got to go bleed some people,... to be continued, I'm sure!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JohnnyThief on 2002-02-10 08:10 ]</font>