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  1. #1
    reggiebeck's Avatar

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    Default INK Chemistry/Any Chemists out there?

    Ive been reading posts about the use of house paint, water based inks and solvent based inks recently and started to wonder what the real differences are between them. Ive come to the conclusion that there are a lot of similarities and common chemistry related to each. Common brake fluid DOT3 and DOT4 (propylene
    glycol) is used as a retarder in water based inks and paint. Magnesium silicate (baby powder/Talc) is an ingredient in Nazdars 5500 poster ink and paper manufacturing. I suspect it helps the pigments stick to the paper better and may give it its flat property. I need to know how to reduce the odor of the solvent based inks short of adding a masking agent, which ive been told has to happen at the manufacturing level. I am also experimenting with some cross over chemistry from the Plastisol arena. I will keep you posted. I am about to test Unions Plasticharge additive in Nazdars 5500 series poster ink. I suspect, the 5500 series being a petroleum based product, will mix almost perfectly with the union product and give the ink a semi water soluble characteristic. I hope it doesnt blow up. I hope to achieve reduction in odor and increase in volume without sacrificing opacity. In theory I should then be able to retard the pot with propylene glycol. Being that Plasticharge is cheap and 5500 not so cheap this will be a winning situation if it works. Have any y'all tried any of this stuff? where y'all from?

  2. #2
    squeegeethree's Avatar

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    You can only mask the solvent smell. You cannot get rid of it's intoxicating effects. IMO it's better to smell it than not smell it.
    5500 is indeed a solent ink adding propylene glycol will probably not help as that is for WB inks (but I have never tried so try it and let us know).
    The ingredient used to flatten and thicken inks is fumed silica (cabosil) not exactly the same as magnesium silicate but maybe you can switch them.

    You should just switch to WB inks and be done with the reinventing the wheel process. Based on your previous thread it seems you are interested in making limited edition art prints. To this end you need to be absolutely sure that all the ingredients you are using are as close to being archival as possible. If you concoct some bad chemistry that turns to mush at a later date you will pay the price with angry collectors.

  3. #3
    reggiebeck's Avatar

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    what made that silica so mad?
    Anyway. I just mixed the plasticharge with nazdar 5500 series scarlet red and it mixed better than expected almost like it was made for it. The plasticharge gave it a gel texture so I added about 5% propylene glycol I had lying around and it loosened up slightly. I didnt want to push it. The glycol didnt seem to harm nor hinder the flow of ink and seemed to mix rather well. Through a 230 mesh at about 18 newtons with a 70/90/70. I got off 5 0r 6 prints before my register marks locked up and the remaining 20 or so test prints lasted well without and loss of edge or lock up at all. Now to give the test swatches a few days to see if anything goes haywire. The oder didnt really dissipate too much but some. The Plasticharge did however extend the 5500 ink. My next test is with house paint and talc. I want to see if I can get semigloss house paint to flatten out and thicken up and smell like a didie.
    I agree with you that trying to concoct(love that word) some monstrosity is probably not going to work well and could lead to liability issues down the road but hey, If i never mixed Thiourea dioxide with sodium metaperiodate and added water, I would never have found out it catches on fire and produces pretty smoke and kills trees and small birds, knowwhaimsayin?

  4. #4
    squeegeethree's Avatar

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    If the talc doesn't work get some Cabosil it is nearly as cheap and handy to have around as it is a universal thickener. Nazdar sells it under the name Cab-o-sil PTG thickening Powder. The last time I checked it was $24 per pound, but a pound comes in a 5 gallon drum because it weighs next to nothing.

  5. #5
    reggiebeck's Avatar

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    yeah I have some, i think its also the wilflex thickener 2. I kind of like that fresh diaper smell though. regardless a box of dust masks is in my near future.

  6. #6

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    squeegeethree - does cabosil work with tw inks? i've used it with speedball to thicken but when i switched to TW i got their thickener...which rocks...just wodering cause i have a bunch of it in the studio

  7. #7
    squeegeethree's Avatar

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    Cabosil works with everything. It's a universal. I've never met and ink or paint that it doesn't work with. It also works with sculpture mixes, resins, and toothpaste.

  8. #8
    jonkeefe's Avatar

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    Fumed silica... wild. For all my grumpiness about how runny house paint is, I never even though of thickening it.

    squeege, I'm curious to know what kind of toothpaste you use that requires thickening

  9. #9
    squeegeethree's Avatar

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    I like to increase the scrubbing power of my toothpaste.
    From wikipedia...
    "Fumed silica serves as a universal thickening agent, in milkshakes for example, and an anticaking agent (free-flow agent) in powders. Like silica gel, it serves as a desiccant. It is used in cosmetics for its light-diffusing properties. It is used as a light abrasive, in products like toothpaste. Other uses include filler in silicone elastomer and viscosity adjustment in paints, coatings, printing inks, adhesives and unsaturated polyester resins. It is also used in the production of cat box filler."

    The real question is who uses it in their milkshakes?

  10. #10
    Work Of The Devil's Avatar

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    I used to use silica in the fancy windows I would build at my parents glass factory...never thought about putting it in my ink, they have like 5000lbs of it.. I'm going to put some in my ink tonight. I'll get back with the results.

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