Help! Waterbased ink not fixing to glossy record cover

[Dave Bailey]

Cleaning up at the end of printing 500 record covers, I was rubbing down an old cover that I had been using to help with registration, when I discovered that I have 500 covers with images that can be rubbed off with a damp cloth and a bit of pressure.

You may remember me from a recent thread, "Help! Problem printing record covers". Thanks to everyones help, I got all 500 covers finished with good images, I wonder if you can help me now.

I know I should have checked the ink for fastness on the record covers at the start, but I thought I had. Whether the test cover was a different gloss finish, or I used different waterbased ink, I don't know. Anyway, I am were I am.

Is there a way I can fix the images on the covers - hairspray, fixative spray, spray mount, whatever? Maybe heat the covers in an oven for a period? Use a heat press for a few seconds?

I'm using waterbased ink (label says it is called Atlantis). The sleeves are card, with a slight gloss finish.

I have told the customer, and am expecting to negotiate a healthy discount, unless I can recover the situation.

Any ideas?

Dave

[Switch]

Dave,Dave, Dave.....Dave!

What have you done! The best way I can think of fixing the sleeves are to spray Matt varnish, it obviosuly dries Matt and will slightly protect them. Problem is, that it wont prevent the ink being scratched off. Its the slightly glossy stock you have printed on. The acrylic hasnt bonded to the stock as its sat on top of the gloss, thats why it is easy to wipe off.

I have bought Matt varnish from Fred Aldous, so try there my good man.Hope it goes well for you dude

[Dave Bailey]

Nick,

What can I say? I thought I had checked.

The matt spray varnish, is that the PK Clear Sealer? It says they do a gloss and satin finish as well. One worry is that it might be difficult to apply and leave a pleasing result - and it is 500 sleeves and 2 sides. Is this stuff OK to use in a closed environment?

I still owe you a beer or 2 don't I? You still screen printing?

Dave

[Switch]

I sure am printing. Not as frequently as I would like mind!

The Matt varnish is sprayable, and you would need to be in a ventalated room or outside, as the spray is strong! The finish is pretty good, but I get what you mean for 500 sleeves.

There is the option to screen print the varnish on. There are mediums out there for Matt waterbased printing varnish. Might be way way easier for you to do that.

[Dave Bailey]

Nick,

Screen printing the varnish on sounds more viable, although I did have a lot of trouble printing close to the open flap of the sleeve. Can you suggest a product/supplier?

Dave

[Switch]

Lascaux print mediums,
AP Fitzpatrick Fine Art Materials - Primings - canvas sealers, acrylic primers, gesso, rabbit skin glue and more
give em a call, they are super helpful.

Or these fellas in Stockport, again super helpful

Screen Ink and Solvent Supplies

With both, explain your problem, and you should get sorted no problem. Hope it goes well dude

[Dave Bailey]

Lascaux print mediums,
AP Fitzpatrick Fine Art Materials - Primings - canvas sealers, acrylic primers, gesso, rabbit skin glue and more
give em a call, they are super helpful.

Or these fellas in Stockport, again super helpful

Screen Ink and Solvent Supplies

With both, explain your problem, and you should get sorted no problem. Hope it goes well dude

Nick,

Many thanks. If I ever get round to buying you those drinks that I owe you, I'll get you another one!

I'll discuss with the guy I printed them for. He knows the problem, and I said I would look into fixes. It depends on whether he prefers the fix, but with a delay, or the discount and record covers that need to be kept dry.

I would need to try the fix before I commit anyway. I assume I would just overprinting the image silhouette?

Dave

[Switch]

Nope, I suggest you just print the entire cover,(12x12) that way if any water does get on to the cover (front/back) its relatively protected all over and not just the printed image.

[Andymac]

Does the ink rewet and come off - like turn liquid? if it does, it's water soluable baby artist ink. You need to step up to some pro shit.

Regardless, ink delamination from surfaces it won't hard bond to is a question of degree. If it is flaking off, that's the worst. If it has to be scratched hard or wet down and rubbed, that is sometimes acceptable, because normal litho inks do that - you ever seen old record albums that have been put in and out of a stack? they all look like shit. Under normal conditions, people don't usually soak their albums with water, or use their record player in the shower or the rain. Then again, you are the English. I met Nick and Luke this year, I understand the cross you all bear.

the lesson here is test test test any material and ink combo you haven't used before. So, before you go out and buy 6 cases of spray or a few gallons of clear, test and make sure your fix actually fixes the problem.

[Dave Bailey]

Andy,

Ink doesn't rewet and come off, but with a damp cloth, or damp finger, rubbiing just wears it off. It doesn't seem too scratch or flake off either. I've tried pulling and replacing the cover, with a record in it, in and out of a tight packed set of my own albums. There was no visible scuffing at all, one or two slight scratches where it had been pushed in tight against albums in those sharp clear plastic covers.

Test, test test - I hear you! Thing is, I thought I had. It's at times like this that I wish I'd listened to what my mother always used to say!

Here's a question for you (and anybody else who cares to join in) - how many cans of spray do you think may be needed to coat both sides of 500 12" covers (the one Nick suggested above comes in 400ml cans). I'm worried that the fix might be more expensive than buying and printing replacement covers.

Possibly an easier question, given my expertise so far on this project, do you think screen printing clear might hold any new challenges for me?

If your still in the mood, one of my mother's favourite questions, "how many commas in a bottle of ink?"

Dave