designer or illustrator ?

[peter cardoso]

I'v looked at quite a few posts and noticed many of you seem confused as to the difference or relevence of us poster artists.Look it comes down to this just because some people draw out there posters and some use "clip art" which is a stupid word cause it's design elements. I personally like to use both and mix it up.Thats why people like kozik,Art Chantry,khun, speed,print mafia,Giant, myself and the list goes on..Keep stuff interesting. I'm not downing artists that only illustrate hell I do it often and I love Derek Hess but are you really going to say those other guys I mentioned are less of an artist cause they used other elements instead just illustrating. Cause if thats the case then get some education on the subject of good design cause in my opinion there great and in most case more sort after then your so called illustrators.I mean that in the way that with most of them what you see is what you get.If you don't like the type of illustratoe he or she is then you probebly never will.On the other hand you might not like koziks illustrations of bunnys and devil girls but love some of that "clip art" or computer genertated posters and record covers he also does.The man mixs it up and keeps you coming back.It's all about talant and respecting the other artists that are tring to do this cause they have a passion for it.Long winded I know but I hope it brings up some interesting points to disscuss.

[Anonymous]

Its not about the use of scanned stuff VS line-art: its about the creativity of the images...the text accompanying it...the TOTAL PACKAGE. KOZIK could use 'clip-art', but with enough wit, he creates a masterpiece. THATS the difference: the difference between an 'artist' and a 'layout man'. Art is not all images...its ideas and feelings. I will NEVER say that SPEED, for instance is NOT an artist, as a statement of FACT.....cause SPEED 'is' an artist to others. Art is totally relative. If someone painted a canvas black, and called it art, saying it represented the blackness of their soul, I couldnt argue with them and say it wasnt. It speaks to THEM. THAT is why I hope everyone keeps on screaming about the posters they love AND the ones they hate. It stirs conversation and NO ONE is wrong. I for one think the pointless (and I stress the word 'pointless') clip-art is USELESS. That said, all of the clip-art Ive seen on posters is NOT pointless. And again, POINTLESS is a relative term...MY opinion. And everyone has theirs! Its fun that every artist seems to have their little cheering section, and thats the fun of it. And just because guys like Derek Hess, or Alan Forbes, or JermaineRogers, or Allen Jaeger aren't alternating with clip-art AND their line-art on posters doesn't mean they aren't 'MIXING IT UP': there are thousands of folks whod disagree with that point. These artists are doing JUST as much as the artists who use scanned imagery, and are actually in some cases making the field more 'respected' by the mainstream art-world so that the 'clip-art' guys can have a stage and be noticed. Some of the line-art from these guys like Jeff Gaither and MAXIMIM FLOURIDE is just staggering. 151 Graphics is cranking out really sweet images. Allen Jaeger and Jermaine Rogers are putting out some of the weirdest, most different work in the field today, and their artwork is MILES apart from each other. Derek Hess is still doing his thing, so is Forbes. Even a guy like Bob Masse is putting the old-time spin on the art. So everyone stand by your favorite artist! Scream out his praises! And be ready to defend WHY you like him- thats what makes these boards worth reading day to day.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thank you so much on 2001-07-10 22:17 ]</font>

[KJ]

Some of the older flyers for bands like Social Distortion and 80's punk, etc, are interesting to look at because they are a completely spontaneous mix of cut and paste images and text. In that way I guess they could be considered "clip art" but in my mind I still consider them both artists and designers. I'm sure the people that produced these flyers had no idea how to silkscreen or illustrate or use a computer to generate their images, but they still look vital, interesting, amazing and even cooler still a lot of them were able to convey some pretty intense politics for their time. Everybody has their own way of doing things and thats what makes art so interesting. I'm not a fan of just one artist, and I'm not sure why anyone would want to collect the work of just one artist or "scene". Its so much more interesting to look at a Derek Hess print next to an old photocopied handbill next to an Art Chantry poster next to a Fillmore print etc etc etc. (in my humble opinion...!)

[peter cardoso]

Kendra I couldn't agree more. Also I belive that alot of these folks were doing whatever they could to support a band they liked or promote a music show they put togather.It was a sense of community. There does not seem to be a lot of that today. Sure you can sell a few of your posters and maybe cover the cost and in some cases get dinner after but as most poster artists will tell you it's a labor of love. I'd like to ask some of these other artist what there doing to keep this spirit alive.Are you tring to get gallery shows (we all know how tough that is in the poster feild) but non the less important so others can see the hard work your doing. Are you tring to create joint shows in your town with out of town artists and vice versa to help spread the art? I see alot of these guys that sell well because they pick the hot band of the month and print several posters sometimes for the same tour in fact. In my opinion thats lame cause in the long run your here today gone tommorow. Sure people buy posters cause they like the band but as an artist you want them to also buy it cause your design was succsessful and the image is great no matter if it's "godsmack" or your local punk band. I find some of these guys and there supportes giving themselves more credit then they deserve.Cause baby we all want to make a living but if your doing it for money before integrity your as good as over. And I agree with the previos post as well. Im not saying don't support the artist you like one way or another I'm saying support the scene as a whole whether you buy there work or not buy giving respect to all the artists no matter what there mediums.I'm saying people all ways warn about shame dealers and sellers.How about these shame artists doing it to make a fast buck and thats all.There doing nothing but cheaping the whole thing.That I don't respect.And that is just MY opinion.

[Anonymous]

Damnit, Mr. Pete...you seem full of venom towards somebody. Which artist are you talking about? Cause I dont know anybody cheapening the field right now, other than some of the real lesser-known guys...and I think thats why they are lesser known. Its kinda funny. but Ive collected posters for a while, and I remember, back in 1993, some 'artists' say the same thing about KOZIK that you are saying about other artists? Who are you speaking about? Emek? Forbes? Rogers? Jaeger? Hess? COOP? I mean, we wanna know!!! If you gonna go there, go all the way, man: Im sure anybody you might mention wont be crushed that you dont like that stuff.

[tornado]

Yea...now ya got me wonderin! Sounds like Pete Cardoso has a grudge! I, for one, like all of the stuff. Everyone on here had 'good' pieces and 'not so good' pieces. But I think its real weird for an artist to come on here bashing another one...

[snapdragon]

Uhhh...isn't he saying that he's NOT bashing any artist? He says "I'm not downing artists" and then says we should respect different styles. It doesn't sound like he has a grudge at all.

[tornado]

oh

[Anonymous]

But he says that people always bash SHAMEFUL dealers and no one bashes the SHAMEFUL artists, who do all the 'hot bands of the month'....He says that they are hurting the field. WHO?

[MaximumFluoride]

I do this because when I was a kid coming up in the punk scene in the 80's, flyer art was so important to the bands. It gave you a way to identify with them and get a feel for what they were about. Look at any Misfits flyer as an example. I feel like that has gone away a little bit. I mean Beck or Godsmack hardly need a gig poster for you to know they are playing in your town or to even help you identify with him or his music. I'm sure I will end up doing bigger bands in the future, because I don't have a problem with doing big runs of stuff for big bands. But for now I am just happy ro be able to help the bands that I work for.

Illustrated flyer or clipart doesn't even matter. It's all preference of the viewer