The official "Not" FNM series discussion.

[perkins]

Seems to me that the sheer number of poster artists wanting gigs has grown to the point where we're inadvertently stepping on each other's toes in order to avoid getting left out...something that didn't used to happen when there were less artists and plenty of gigs to go around. A lot of folks, me included, have had a comfortable system in place for years that went largely unintruded upon. I'm admittedly a little spoiled, and it's difficult at times to accept that things have changed, and that I have to work harder to compete for the gigs that I want badly- especially those that used to be automatic. But that's the way things are- and like it or not, (ironically) I've contributed to the current state of things by simply trying to put out my best work and (hopefully) making the genre more appealing to younger artists- some of whom may someday replace me.

It's nothing more than the natural progression of things really. I love it when I get included in a poster series, and feel a bit rejected when I don't. That's just human nature. But it does inspire me to work harder to set up my own deals and not wait around for someone to throw me a bone. That's what free enterprise is based on, so it's hard to knock anyone for finding a way to do it better, even if I'm not a part of it. Having said that, I also understand the frustration that some have expressed, because I feel it regularly. So what do you do, except roll with it and try to make it work for you. You can't stop progress.

The smart people have known for years it would come to this, and have made deliberate efforts to parlay the rock poster thing into bigger & better work that is not subject to the same rules & limitations. Tidwell comes to mind, as does Eleanor and Ferg. Frank is the most obvious example. Everyone likes to be influenced by him to get into poster art, but few seem to be paying attention to his example of using posters as a springboard to something more permanent.

For the most part, I agree with the quote below. A lot of artists seem to think that the music industry owes them something. Time to wake up, yo.

Originally Posted by RichieGoodtimes

All of you people are ignoring the real monsters who wants to take a bite.

At this time only poster makers are generally ignoring the merch companies, management and labels. Not always, but more often than not. They see the money and they want what they rightfully or incorrectly see as their cut.

[MaximumFluoride]

I want to make some art, get paid and not have to sell shit. That's just me though. the "craft" of poster making has never been of great interest to me. I burned myself out of screen printing long before I started making posters. So, for me it's always been about using posters to move to something else. Like, painting. If I can use my rock art to make a painting career happen then I'm all good.

Originally Posted by bdix

so in this poster analogy, you should get paid to design the tour shirt, and on top of that you should be able to print and sell an extra case of shirts of your own? 'cause that's what I've been hearing so far from everybody.


here's the two licensing deals i've experienced firsthand in the t-shirt biz...

1. you get paid to design and print a tour shirt. the band pays for everything and you deliver the goods. the band sells their shirts on their own and keeps the profits.

or

2. you pay the band "x" amount, or "x" percentage to license their image/name/brand. you design, print, and sell the shirts and keep/share the profits.

so what I understand from most of the arguments here is that poster artists would like the first part of deal 1, with the last part of deal 2. have I made a fair assessment?

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by scrojo

another deal i've made with bands is this:

3: the band pays for printing and we split the run 50/50 to do whatever we choose. another version of this is the band taking all the posters on tour to sell and we split the cash ( with the band taking an extra cut for acting as "distributor" ).

Right on Scrojo.
I do this 50/50 tour deal too. It's a fair shake.
I do posters for single shows at a band or label or merchandising company's request.
Also work with Moss & Justin to do series.
Also do venue posters for Goldenvoice. Wouldn't be surprised if after a track record of months of doing these great posters for this production company on time - that the production management would begin to discuss this with bands during contract negotiations.
I'm always pressing it to move in this direction. Because I fully understand the dynamic that Justin is describing. And I also understand Moss' strongly held opinions about this - Moss and Justin are righteous guys! Like I said, I appreciate their efforts in our field.

[crosshair]

Originally Posted by MaximumFluoride

I want to make some art, get paid and not have to sell shit. That's just me though. the "craft" of poster making has never been of great interest to me. I burned myself out of screen printing long before I started making posters. So, for me it's always been about using posters to move to something else. Like, painting. If I can use my rock art to make a painting career happen then I'm all good.

I'm kinda the opposite... I'm a printer, and I've always printed plenty of non-poster jobs, non-music industry jobs. I'm enjoying the creative part right now, but I don't always. Even my own non-gigposter art is to a great extent about exploring print technique. I'm as fascinated by screenprinting today, as I was when I first picked up a squeegee. I'm quite comfortable printing other people's work, and working with a range of clients outside of posters. There's plenty of work out there for me to take or leave, and I can concentrate on posters & other creative work, or not, as I please.

Honestly if it weren't for the social aspect, of talking trash with you goofballs on the internets and dorking out at Flatstock, I doubt I'd be making many posters at all now, except for my own band and my friends' bands.

One thing I'm definitely through with though, after this one for MEC...putting together poster series.
Not worth the effort, not worth the controversy. It's a pain in the ass and I get nothing out of it...giving away jobs that I could get paid for myself.

[Barry Obama]

I'm going to start bootlegging other artists posters then go to their exhibits and sell them out front then offer them the crappy end of the run posters as a gift.

then at the next flatstock i will offer variants.

I figure i will do Horkey and Jay ryan tributes first.

[MaximumFluoride]

Lol!

[loco]

I still love screen printing and consider myself a printer first

-loco

[Tenebrini]

I burned my mouth on a Chicago Dog at lunch.

One time I wanted to make a poster on my dime for this one band that was coming to First Ave.but that fucker Adam Turman beat me to the punch so I contacted band MGMT and said "You need something for a different gig?" to which he replied "why don't we PAY YOU to do a tour poster" LOLZ!!! Eat me Turman (I love you).

Another time I wanted to do a poster for this one band that was coming to First Ave. so I contacted band MGMT and they said "Give us all the posters and we'll sell them at the merch table and split the profits with you at the end of the night. You are not allowed to sell them on your website. Ever."

I walked out of that show with a giant wad of cash.


COMMUNICATION! All you have to do is pickup the phone or fire off an email and negotiate. Simple.

Some times tour series' smash legitimately constructed dreams. I'm crying inside.

Not really.

I'm making a poster right now. With the bands permission. I might make some money I might not. But I'll get to see the show for free so bling bling... whatevah whatevah....

Motorcycle rides to hot-dog joints at lunch do wonders for morale.

[andydiesel]

Originally Posted by crosshair

One thing I'm definitely through with though, after this one for MEC...putting together poster series.
Not worth the effort, not worth the controversy. It's a pain in the ass and I get nothing out of it...giving away jobs that I could get paid for myself.

Agreed. i would need to get paid a decent amount of cash to organize another series.