SELF COMMISSION

[vibranium]

so how does everyone feel about this whole self-commisioned thing? i'm not judging anyone i just want to get an idea. there seems to be a lot of 'work' produced without really getting permission.

[moxiegusto]

It sems like a good way to start creating a body of work, but there are sure to be legality issues if you sell the posters. I would not recommend you go too far down this road. It only cheapens you as an artist. If you do stuff like this for free, that is all the work is worth to promoters and bands. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" my momma always said.

Better to find some bands you love and help them and yourself by getting your stuff out in public. I have seen bands begin to do much better as a result of a series of quality posters. I have also seen them slide when they got too big for their britches and decided to screw the artist who helped them get noticed. They would put out sclock art and wonder where the audience went. Serves 'em right. Support those who support you.

[wardog]

Hey RJ MOXIE,
How are you? I think I'll be your way end of Feb, begining of March. This is a great topic and I agree 100% with Mox. It diminishes your credibility and the legal ramifications could be pretty heavy. Find some friends in a band or approach bands and make them an offer. You won't make any money (I guess if anyone thinks or starts making posters with that expectation.... forget it) but you can build up a nice portfolio and nice reputation.

[vibranium]

I was introduced to the concept here...and my qustion is why do so many people do it?

[wardog]

Vibranium,
I'm also aware of some who do this. Whether they realize it or choose to just not care... these are the artists that threaten the future of this artform. Let some major act get wind of it, file a lawsuit for i.p. or copyright infringement against that artist, possibly take away everything they own. These lawsuits can ask for damages in the 100k's and pretty soon bands, managements, merchandisers will put no-poster clauses in their contracts with the promoters and then no independant artist will be doing concert posters. They will all be done through strict liscensing and done by inhouse ad agencies. These guys who do this don't think of this or care. It could and will happen if the problem becomes widespread. If you ask me just the personal threat is pretty stupid. Check into damages on lawsuits of this type. I think the common thought on this is that "I only made $100 selling some posters that I wasn't authorized to make.. or didn't make any money on these... so what are they going to get out of me... nothing.... "WRONG". I suggest those that practice this check it out...

[Nolen Strals]

yeah, I've never taken this approach coz it just seems wayyy too sketchy. I always get the band's or the promoter's permission first. Two or three times bands gave me some flack for making a poster, but I had the promoter backing me for it, authorizing it as just additional work done to draw people to the show, so that was the end of any argument there.

I also agree that if a lot of people start doing this, the free milk/buy the cow thing will hold true and will all be left with nothing to do coz someone else will be kicking it out for free (and the business types in the industry love that word when it comes to promotions). ALways get permission, and do your best to always get paid...it's just not worth it otherwise.

[vibranium]

i'm glad to hear others saying the things that i think are indisputable. very well.

[nerfball6]

Wardog wrote:
>>Check into damages on lawsuits of this type. I think the common thought on this is that only made $100 selling some posters that I wasn't authorized to make.. or didn't make any money on these... so what are they going to get out of me... nothing.... "WRONG". I suggest those that practice this check it out Check into damages on lawsuits of this type.<<

Mark, Where can an artist find this kind of information?
I was under the impression that if a poster was used to promote a show, even an uncommissioned poster, that it could safely be sold after as a 'historical document'? Is this incorrect?

[moxiegusto]

In response to Wardog's comment about money to be made in this business, it is pretty clear that rare is the artist who financially benefits greatly from this artform. In fact many of the best known poster artists of the sixties made little or no money either. Of the many of them that I know, none of them seems to be rich from concert posters. Some of the most famous names we know have working wives or, in only one case I know of, a hard working merchandising agent. My reward for what I have done is to see the finished product on my wall. Another rush is to see my work upon someone else's wall. Hell, I give most of my stuff away. I'd rather see someone who enjoys my art have it to appreciate than have a whole pile of stuff that few people even know about collect dust in the hopes that one day I'll sell them for the "big bucks". I don't know many of the current crop of poster "headliners" like Kozik and the like but I believe anyone getting rich or even making a living on this artform is the exception rather than the rule. Mark, come see me when you get here. I've got the same number.

[wardog]

Nerf,
In this bizarro world where power and money, in the courts of the United States (Europe, I know is different), sometimes carry more weight than right or wrong and fairness... anybody can file suit against anybody for anything. In referance to your "historical document" question... a lot of bands these days are trademarking their names as well as likenesses and imagery, so it's possible that even if you have permission from the promoter and never ever even sell a poster a band can sue you for creating a poster, using there name to advertise their show. There is a lawfirm out of Nashville, KING & BALLOW (they do have a website), they represent mostly people in the entertainment industry and they publish a newsletter probably every 2 months with current cases, judgements and verdicts pertaining to all this stuff. It's very very interesting and all you guys would be surprised how really vulnerable we all are. Do a little search and contact them and see what you need to do to recieve their newsletter. It's pretty informative and eye-opening. If you are unable to find them, contact me and I'll dig out and old newsletter and get some contact info to you.