Censorship on these boards

[art chantry]

xxoo

[JGex]

I cannot find a thing I disagree with in your last post, Art.

I'm sure this is going to be a serious discussion at Drowning Creek, too, as we are NOT about censorship or participating in venues that do.

I participate in many online forums and am well aware of the need to moderate the same, but the posts by joeposter that were pulled, were NOT posts that needed editing OR censoring.

I've been reading some real crap here lately and find it very funny that innocuous posts are being pulled IMMEDIATELY when others that were defamatory and vulgar were left for many days.

And somehow, I just can't see that there are lawyers interested in what's being said in this forum.

[Nolen Strals]

I hate cencorship as much as teh next guy, and I believe in freedom of speech, but if there are thin-skinned individuals who get bad-mouthed (in their eyes, constructive criticism in someone else's eyes) and have to pull out a lawyer (weak) to "defend their good name" or whatever...

I hate to say it, but if the site owners don't bend to their will, this site could go out of business, and that would be a tragedy.

Don't blame the site and its owners, blame the people who can't take being criticized and pull out their big guns to protect them when they get a little "bad press" from a fellow artist. The bad guy here are these people, not the site operators. To quote Bill Clinton (something I never do) "I feel your pain". Gotta do what you gotta do when dealign with thin-skinned arteests.

OR...here's an idea...pull the work of people who dont' like being criticized, that's the root problem...
If they can't take the heat, KICK THEM OUT of the kitchen! (maybe another form of cencorship in some eyes, but it keeps the lawyers out of this, and who wants to see the art of someone who cna't speak for themself, but has to have a lawyer do it?)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nolen Strals on 2001-12-18 08:16 ]</font>

[JGex]

Nolan,

I respectfully disagree with you. Either this forum is for ALL artists or this forum will go away.

There is something to be learned from ALL artists & ALL design, even those that may not meet with the general view of artistic qualifications.

If the slagging were truly constructive criticism, I doubt seriously if anyone would be offended. It's all in the wording & tone, and since posters & readers here can't do anymore than interpret the words at face value because implied sarcasm & facial expressions cannot be seen or heard, posters should take a moment to THINK before they hit the Reply button.

This is an issue of RESPECT... or more specifically, the LACK thereof.

What a cop out to say those with thin skins should be eliminated.

[Nolen Strals]

yeah I realize I mis-spoke partally in my reply.

This site should be open to all, but the site operators are in a catch-22 here:

Post ALL the work (the original intent of the site), DON'T censor and some people call out their lawyers (instead of standing up for themselves) which could shut down the site. Post only people who can take criticism thus censoring, or censor comments that are non-productive (by whose discretion?) and lose the support of part of the poster community?

Which would you do?

If certain people are calling in their lawyers, it has to be one or the other.

In a perfect world, it wouldnt have to be. In a perfect world, you'd see the real faces and real names of people commenting on the work, but the internet is not a perfect world and neither is the real world. People like to immaturely slander anonymously, and sometimes people like to read things that aren't slanderous the wrong way, lawyers like to be greedy bastards, etc. etc.
THUS this is not a perfect world and an imperfect compromise may have to be made.

What I ask for is everyone who's calling out their lawyers to lighten up and all the people using fake names/aliases (unless you can prove it by your website/profile who you really are if you just really like posting by some other moniker) need to use real ones and stop the pointless slander...because it's just that, pointless, it achieves nothing.

I don't believe in censorship, but I believe in keeping this site alive. Call off the watchdogs, call off the lawyers, and think before you type some childish slander.

All art does have a value to it, and thus should be seen, I totally agree...I'm glad I see stuff on here I don't necessarily like or that challenges my own taste/aesthetics because it is always useful to see what other artists are doing.

I think the easiest way to sum this up is:
Grow the fuck up.
Get rid of your self-ego-boosting trashing of others.
Get rid of your lawyers and speak for yourself.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nolen Strals on 2001-12-18 093 ]</font>

[admin]

Thank you.

[JGex]

Well, I've not seen (nor do I expect to see) any evidence that a lawyer was brought in on this. That's hearsay & I don't listen to hearsay.

Frankly, it sounds like another cop out so that admin doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility for the censorship.

I can't see any lawyer taking on a case that has so many obvious holes nor, as the spouse of a poster artist, do I see that many of us could AFFORD to call out a lawyer to harrass the site.

Again, JMHO

[Nolen Strals]

You don't think anyone has the money to call in a lawyer?
What about the big guys making shit loads of money? coop? kozik? fairey? (by his own account-) Speed?

Come on...I personally talked to someone who visited Kozik's place and said there's a giant basket he just throws his receipts and bills in and lets someone else take care of it. I'm not talking crap on Kozik, he can run his business how he wants, and he's part of what made me want to get into postres in the first place, I'm just using this as an example of someone who doens't seem to have money problems.

Oh, and I'm sure you'll say that the idea of a big basket it all gets thrown in is preposterous, but if you've ever read an interview with the guy, he's pretty gregarious, so it doesn't seem too far-fetched. I like the guy nonetheless.

And PosterMistress, while I respect your opinions, it may be just such a situation that the Admin. cannot fully divulge teh information of the possible suit.

Oh, and Lawyers take on cases with tons of holes in them all the time, look at the people attempting to convict half of the political prisoners in this country...they know their cases are shit, but they have power and intimidation on their side.

[Nolen Strals]

besides....does anyone besides the admin and the lawyers of said artist even know which posters were removed?

[JGex]

lol... we know Frank & have interviewed him.

blah, blah, blah.