How to Charge - Part II "The Merchandisers"

[Will Ruocco]

I'm sorry I missed out on the last discussion on "how to charge people". I've been away from gigposters for about two months. This is the sort of topic I've been looking for.

I have a "hypothetical" question; Let's say Paul McCartney's merchandising company has approached you and asked you to design (not print - just design) an Event Poster for one night of his world tour. How much should you ask for?

You are relatively unknown - you have some design experience in the music business...you have no idea how many copies of the poster will be printed...and Paul McCartney owns all rights to the artwork and you don't receive any royalties (maybe tickets to the show). And you wish to get more work from them in the future.

What do you do? Ask for your money back for Pipes of Peace?

You don't want to burn a bridge that you haven't even crossed yet. This could be a big break. You don't want to appear greedy or eager, but you would like to be properly compensated. I'm assuming a design firm would get lots of $ for the same amount of work as a freelance artist.

Has anybody worked for a Merchandiser before? What has been your experience in dealing with them?

How do you charge for something like this? If you can give real dollar amounts - that would be great. My first name is Will for anyone who wishes to reply. Some other names have been changed to protect the innocent.

[kozik]

Mcartney...well tickets are 250 bucks...a shirt probably 45 bux. they got dough.

no less than $1500.00 bucks for a single event poster for sale. If they want copyright make it $2500.00 bucks.

Me...since I'm like an asshole and don't dig Mcartney I'd shoot for at least 5 grand just to piss them off.

definately no less than a grand.

[art chantry]

sound advice from frank. since it's mccartney, i'd probably get greedy so i could finance all the indie bands i help. but even without the greed, frank's pricing is accurate. however, they'll want it for less, no matter what you say, so work some negotiating wiggle room into your pricing. sell usage instead of copyright. in the long run, they take it all anyway, but at least it looks like you know what's going on.

[steve w]

Okay, so that's ex-BEATLE pricing. Does it go higher in the rock world? (I'm asking-not being a smartass. And what are the steps down from there?
Or is it as simple as Major vs. Indie? (which gets a little blurrier every day)

[kozik]

well...here's the spread fo me anyway:

indie:
0-1200 bux for a copyright

big indie
1000-5000 for a copyright

small major
3500-10,000

BIGTIME

8000-70,000

you just need to feel it out. I've charged the full range before.

for corporate work it starts at 1500 for something small all the way up to 150,000
for a national campaign.

I only got 150g's once.

the 'average' corp job is like in the 3500-12,500 range.

everyone is eating shit these days tho and about 50 %
of designers are basically gettin no play so I have lowered my prices by about 25% this year.

[art chantry]

i find it gets so arbitrary that it's more of a case by case secenario. some indies who i'm good friends with i charge very low, other indies whom are kinda sleazeballs, i go high. in the middle is a crap shoot, they want the lowball indie price, but they make the small major money off it. the majors are a whole different ballgame. money talks, and high prices are respected. if you don't charge TOO MUCH they treat you like piss. dangerous games.

best advice, charge just above your comfort zone. i had one guy who decided to figure out his price and then blindly double it. it scared the hell out of him to do it, but nobody ever even flinched. and he started getting even more work than ever. that sez a lot right there, if you cost a lot, then you MUST be good. this is america and quality means expensive here.

[GIGART]

I agree with Frank that you at least get 1500 for the poster...I also usually ask for at least 50 posters on top of the price..as artists proofs...my other thought, though, is since you said it could be your big break...if you really don't want to lose this deal and hope that it may turn into something bigger down the line...then maybe go bit less...a poster like that may get you a lot of exposure...and make sure you put a credit on the bottom...maybe your web address...I do that and people will find you if they want to.
And this is only for the use on a poster...I have done work for a poster, and then they like the image so they want to use it on a t-shirt....so then you charge another 500-1000 for the use on a t-shirt...and then a sticker...etc...you can make some money that way...but make sure you have the deal in writing...I always send an agreement and have it signed and faxed back to me stating the work is for poster use only and the price we decided...just look out for yourself..cause everyone wants everything for nothing...

[Will Ruocco]

I'm not trying to be greedy, but I would like to get what I deserve for some good work. I wouldn't charge McCartney $1000 for a pack of gum just because I knew he could afford it, but artwork is such a personal and one of a kind thing.

Designing is a job and it's work - no matter how you slice it and as with any job you should be paid for your time and effort. McCartney doesn't just get paid for his time in the studio though. He also gets paid for the finished artwork (in his case, song).I just wish I knew the industry standards for pricing. A poster $300...T-shirt $500...Decal $250.

this reply arrived a little late due to server problems, here it is anyway.

[art chantry]

you priced low, and they'll likely try to talk you down. good luck.

oh, and never sign their contracts - write your own contracts and make them sign that. they'll piss and moan and send it though 'leagl', but their contracts are really harsh. lawters write their contracts to protect their interests, and certainly not yours. protect yourself with your contract.

oh, and never sign anything that contains the phrase 'work for hire' anywhere in the thing no matter how tiny and obscure. it's a trap.

[steve w]

If you don't charge enough, they treat you like crap. That seems to be
my problem in a nutshell. I've recently begun raising my prices, and I understand the scariness of it. It also gets confusing when you print the stuff as well.
Lately, I've been taking the tactic of showing all my old customers what I
should be charging (book rates). Somehow this makes it easier to charge my
full rate to new customers when they call. And you're right Art, they don't even flinch.