Flatstock Europe

[rica]

Let's talk about rock posters, in France -I'm not really aware about how it works elsewhere.
Posters, illustration, screenprint... are not as acclaimed as in the US. It's not considered as art. The word "art" itself has not the same meaning as in the US. Talkin with the average guy in France, art is at the Louvre, basta. I realized that it's like something dead in France, in more than a way, and it's really difficult to make the poster scene as living and popular as in the US. There's a cultural gap, and lack of of interest, and some kinda suspicion toward french artists.
Plus we talk about "rock" posters, mainly. There's a really small rock scene in France, most bands struggle to tour, and it's going harder and harder for everyone involved into that. Economically, I mean.
In my experience, posters I sold better were for american bands. I don't think people here would expect so much a poster for a french band. An I think that people in France who are interested in gigposters are generally more interested in american gigposter and gigposter artists. They are less doubtfull toward an american poster than to a french. Coz even if they don't like the poster in the end, even if it's not a good investment for a collector, it's still a real piece of american culture coming straight from across the ocean.
That's how it works, more or less, in France. My point of view.

[DRG]

This would be a great thing to discuss in person. On the internet it just becomes a stuck record of people saying the same thing over and over...

It's an absolutely beautiful day outside! See you down the pub.

[rica]

I go to the pub at 5:30!
Newcastle saves my day.
Pog Mothoi!

[piemel]

thanks ... but this is exactly the point... it WOULD be great to discuss this in person and find a way to make it work.

Sincerly speaking I hope that a lot of you get together and figure out a way to come up with a solution... because if you don't it will nver work and Flatsock and poster jobs will be controlled by your American peers

There were a few ingredients that made it work in the USA.. leader, party, infrastucture and mentality

For starters there was somebody like Kozik who had the clout to organize and to whom a variety of different artists were willing to listen... some leadership type person must exist in Europe... he/she needs to step up

Second and no less important... probably most imortant.. you guys need to get together and party. There is a reason why the Flatstock BBQ in Seattle and Austin is so important... you guys need the European copy of Firehouse crew.

Third the infrastructure... its there... the USA crew needed gigposters... you guys now have gigposters to use and also have a set Flatstock skeleton to use.

Fourth... that I can't change and if it ends up being the difference there is nothing to do about it. Unless the Europeans as a group are willing to take that step and thake the risk then it will fail

[tanxxx]

what Rica said. I discuss this point so many times that now I'm tired of it. USA is a BIG country, plus illustration IS a "real job" there. Not here. We're "bohemians who draw" and it's really hard to explain that it IS a real day job, using 100% of our time. Most of people think that we should draw on sunday and have a real job. Sad, but true. That's why art in general is not important in france.

I'm sometimes considered as the fist gigposters designer in france (it's NOT true, but it's what I heard most of time) BUT it doesn't make my posters sell, trust me. And that what makes me really doubtful about the success of gigposters around here (in france, at least). I had awesome experiences but I just can't imagine to do gigposters all my life.

[piemel]

Tanxxx, rica and brits... thanks.... I wish there were more people reacting... lets see some more.

Are the UK artists feeling the same way? What about the Germans? And all the other missing?

[Drozd]

yeah its a tricky one. Flatstock threatens to cripple me as im so poor at the moment. Couple that with being self-employed, the cost of printing posters as i dont have access to screening at the moment, the fact i live in one of the worlds most expensive cities, the credit crunch, and the fact im studying for an MA and when it comes to it the scene is smaller here. Europe is a series of very different countries with very different mentalities and cohesion here is difficult. In the UK things ARE getting better. We have people organising events more and more frequently and this may/should/could lead towards a healthier, brighter future for the Euro poster makers. Lets hope. Im happy to discuss all this further in person at The 'Stock. Toodle pip....

[Scrawled]

Well, I do sell prints at a steady (if slow) rate, but it's by no means a lucrative venture given the time needed, or overheads related to materials, premises etc.

However, I keep very busy with general design/pre-press work, and increasingly, more illustrative work - a lot of this comes through people saying "I say your "***" poster and I really like it...would you be interested in..."

In N.Ireland and Ireland, there seems to be little or no interest in screenprinted posters locally, at least not on a level that translates into sales. From a UK perspective I definitely get the impression (I may be mistaken, but this is how it seems) that it's

(a) a lot cheaper to screenprint in the States than it is UK/Europe
(b) rapid inflation in UK (average domestic bills have doubled in 18 months)
(c) In Europe there is a fixation on American culture, rather than domestic arts/music which means that US touring bands can sell merch/prints easily, but there's little interest in homegrown talent. This means Euro poster artists are directly "competing" (not the ideal word) with US artists for the US bands. American culture seems happy to buy into its own music/art...less so in Europe I think (at least on a commercial level). This means that the infrastructure that exists in America could perhaps be specific to America, and that different approaches may be needed elsewhere.

These are just observations and I don't think they're gospel, and would definitely like to hear counter arguments. But, for me, the posters seems to work as more of a means of self promotion than generating enough sales to make trips to things like Flatstock and similar events feasible on a regular basis.

It all comes down to money and time for me personally, I have only a small amount of either, and this dictates how much time I can spend on posters, or the poster community, not any kind of apathy or disillusionment.

[rica]

Totally agreed.

[B-DROID]

Mmmmm.

Everyone I have met in the UK scene has been really great and I look forward to seeing them whenever we have an event planned. I also look forward to meeting the other Euros at this upcoming Flatstock.

A few things that I have noticed about the UK scene so far are that people are trying to make it work and expand it. Jacknife has done a great job getting noticed at festivals and Nick did a great job getting us into the Urbis at Manchester. But, the public is still learning about the posters and have a tough time spending money on this "art" at times.

Also, a lot of artists here are sooooo worried about making money which is kind of disappointing to me. It shouldn't be about that, it should be about doing something that you love to do and having the privilege to do so. When I arranged the Baroness and Kylesa series there were a lot of grumblings of money and territory and I did my best to accommodate everyone but at the same time it was a good opportunity to gain exposure which I think a few people forgot to take into consideration.

On the subject of money again, screenprinting seems to be more expensive to do here and finding supplies is definitely more difficult. So, I can understand that some artists are wary about the costs. On the same note though, I think some artists here are under the impression that artists in the States are making cash every time they make a poster and the reality is that the majority of them are not.

There is some other stuff too, but I can't think of it right now.