Flatstock Europe

[piemel]

Well, one simple reason is, that there aren't that much gigposter artists in germany. Even if they make posters, it doesn't mean that this posters/flyers are screen-printed. It's mostly offest, which is becomming really cheap.
And when you see gigposters as another merch-thing, than this printing tecnique is nearly "worthless". Maybe i'm wrong but noone (even the API) wants to see offset posters at Flatstock...

1) I don't think you are 'getting' my message here... until you guys get TOGETHER and make changes nothing will happen... Nobody is going to change this except for you and your current peers.

2) If you are waiting for the American artists to make this art more popular, to get a larger European based customer base, to get more press coverage and to get more infrastructure like posters events then the fear is that the gap I mention between US and Euro artists will only get bigger and bogger making it virtually impossible for you guys to ever make this change happen

3) Combine all the above and mix it up with your statement that we see posters as merch and that silkscreen is worthless... the proof is in the pudding here... there has never been more (your words) worthless merch printing being done in the USA then ever before. ... you see where I am going at? My point is that that one sentence basically makes all of the efforts a moot point... it will never happen when people only want to come when they have a guaranteed paycheck or when they think they can not initiate a change

Change dude.. I sound like fucking Obama

[piemel]

the population of artists in the respective countries is a factor. Hell we have more rock poster makers in Austin than prolly any single country in Europe. For sure any single city.

And galleries over in Europe are extending invitations. We are showing at Slowboy this fall between the Tilburg show and Flatstock. Eventually we'll get our calendar lined up with Goodall and go back.

And this Euro Flatstock is almost full up and it's a nice balance between Euro and US artists. I think shit is happening over there more than you realize. Certainly more than can be gauged by participation at a single Flatstock.

This isn't the same discussion as when we put on the first Hamburg Flatstock. That was met with skepticism but I was there and I met all the Europeans and saw the genuine excitement and motivation to go home and keep pushing the medium. The UK gang alone has prolly doubled or tripled since then. You can't say they aren't working.

If no Europeans were showing up for Flatstock then I'd be let down but that's not the case now.

Geoff... I made it it apoint to single out the UK folks as the example where change is happening, where participation seems to be increasing, etcetera...

I am not worried about the UK folks... I think they will be fine. Its the continent that is lagging.

And if that remains the case then the UK folks should have an annual poster show right in the UK... maybe that will help in changing the scene even faster

[DCM]

And if that remains the case then the UK folks should have an annual poster show right in the UK... maybe that will help in changing the scene even faster

Annual? seriously, since this time last year last year in the UK alone we have had shows in London, Brighton, Bristol (although i was un able to attend personally) and Manchester (at a huge contemporary Gallery in the city centre). Next weekend we have a show in Camden Town, the London show that Jackknife was organising falls the weekend before Flatstock in Hamburg.... and obviously Hamburg means pretty much the full UK scene will be together drinking. Later in the year i'm in the process of sorting out a potentially great show in Newcastle. The shows are the tip of it really, we seem to have between us a number of really successful tour series, with more in the pipeline.
Through doing posters i have seriously met some great friends and some generally awesome people, which is great in itself.
It's getting late, and i don't want to launch into a too much, but there are just too many aspects that need to be discussed face to face.
I would certainly agree with something that Chloe and Glynn mentioned, that for a lot of people (myself included) doing posters is only a small aspect of what we do. To me it's almost a hobby.... kind of the fun part of the job.
It's late i'm rambling.
I'm very hot.

[piemel]

i just cracked open a cold can of beer

I know there are tons of poster shows in the UK... I am about a Flatstock sized one in the UK if the mainland doesnt get to the next level so to speak

and yes... the whole point here is that a lof of this is a way lot easier to do in person while getting blotto ... most important even at any flatstock remains the 'nigth-before' party and the BBQ

[l.stalions]

I believe both sides have a valid argument here. The truth is sometimes in the middle.

I don't handle the organization of Flatstock Europe, nor have I attended, but being on the API Board and doing Seattle's FS allows me some clarity on what it takes to make a poster event happen. Each location or country may have it's differences but there is one global truth. You only get what you put in. This is on an individual, community, and organizational level. Each person has to answer to themselves. If you don't think you are doing enough than do more, if you are a lazy bastard you will suffer the consequences. Lets not point figures at each other. That gets us nowhere fast.

Flatstock is still a risk to some wherever it may be held and it's a ton of work. Sometimes I forget why I do it but I'm reminded when Seattle happens and my artists are enjoying themselves and the people attending Bumbershoot are amazed by the work that artists are creating and by our community in general. I don't do it for myself I do it for others because I believe in the impact it has. Maybe that's what it takes to make anything on a large scale work.

[jayryan]

my two cents (worth less in the current market):

rene is not attacking. he's prodding. i understand this.

rene was on the API board, and ran the books for several years. he's been a big supporter of many postermakers. he helped me out in a couple big ways. he's prodding because he cares about the (worldwide) scene. it's obvious that we all do.

the europeans are making leaps and bounds. as fast as we'd all like to see? no. but there's progress.

progress on what, exactly? creating a scene. educating the audience. as stinkbait (peveto) mentioned, the first flatstock in any given city is met with gaping stares:"what is this stuff? posters? what?" but when these people learn about the posters, then an audience is created.

the europeans have a misconception about this being an easy job here in the states. it is not. we are looked at as fools for selecting this as a profession or a hobby. there are perhaps a dozen (?) americans on gigposters who only make posters for a full-time job - the rest work day jobs printing someone else's t-shirts, or designing magazines for a publisher, or shipping computer parts around the country.

i am not criticizing anyone for not having enough money to hop a train for hamburg. i am simply re-stating what i take as rene's meaning: you build it yourself. no one buys your posters? you're not showing them to the right people. attract a crowd.

i love seeing what's going on in europe. i love that there are a bunch of people making work there. i want to be involved in attracting a crowd to see this work. we need more patience, we need more participation. we have further to go, but we're moving along.

and we better be getting on a boat on sunday in hamburg.

[seriplop]

i get what you're sayin' jay , i just think there are MANY ways of educating folks about and creating an audience for posters .
flatstock is one of them and it's a good one but it's not the only one.

[Stereoface]

I have been following this thread all day and have found the dialogue very interesting. As someone with no creative ability, I lurk around Gigposters as a ‘professional appreciator’ of the collective talent showcased here. Although this may prevent me from being able to relate to, understand, or make suggestions regarding the financial viability of attending Flatstock or creating posters either as a hobby or a profession, I would like to offer insight from the other side of the cash register.

First, I agree with Jay’s characterization of Rene as ‘prodding’ rather than ‘attacking.’ At first glance, I can understand why the post raised eyebrows. Most of us only know Rene from his posts here and possibly on EB so we don’t know much other than he likes his Jay Ryan and Coyne prints and he can instigate heated “debate.” I have only met Rene once (I doubt he remembers). I met him at Flatstock 7 in Seattle. I think he sold me tubes at the API booth. Although our interaction was brief, I could tell he was really passionate about the scene and made me realize it was more of a community than just artists that met up from time to time to sell posters in the same place. So, although his technique to ‘motivate’ the Europeans to attend may not have been as effective as he would have liked, I do not doubt his intentions.

Second, as to increasing the prestige, profitability, and visibility of the scene in Europe, I can only offer my experience. Chloe is right, there are multiple ways to educate and create an audience for posters. I think that one large resource that can help in Europe as it has here is Gigposters.com. Although there is no substitute to seeing prints in person, giving GP exposure at FS Europe could provide the trickle down effect to artists who were unable to attend that the US stimulus package failed to provide the economy. Allow me to explain.

In reading this thread, there have been comments made that, for example, people only are interested in purchasing posters for bands they know, that some artists have not had the opportunity to work with these bands, etc, etc. I think this is true to an extent. In fact that is how I found GP by accident. I was looking for a poster for a Radiohead show I went to. It turned out that Jermaine had made the poster. I didn’t know that the posters could be more than just something slapped up on a window. After that I started to look at other shows I went to for posters and if I couldn’t find them I started looking online. That is how I found GP. Initially, I started just looking for bands that I knew but ended seeing great illustrations for bands I didn’t know and at that point I didn’t even care. So, how does this get back to growing Europe? I think that one thing that could help would be having a GP booth, merchandise, or at least a mention in the program. You want people to be able to have some place to go to look for art for bands they like, see that more is out there, and then before they even know it they will have transitioned from looking for band merchandise to looking for art.

Another thought is that it would be really interesting if either on here or on EB or some other site there was a way to search by location. I think it would be cool if instead of being able to just search by designer I could search by, for example, “Germany” and see “Lars Krause.” It might lead to more local interest both from collectors as well as bands looking for an artist.

[stinkbait]

In reading this thread, there have been comments made that, for example, people only are interested in purchasing posters for bands they know, that some artists have not had the opportunity to work with these bands, etc, etc.

This was maybe the most interesting thing I experienced in Hamburg the first time. Nobody had any idea who the bands were on our posters. Over here we have some of the biggest names going in Hamburg it didn't make a bit of difference. What I got was "who is this modest mouse? why do you have so many?"

But they bought them anyway. I sold as much stuff in Hamburg and we do at any US Flatstock even though the bands had little to do with it. That is super flattering that they are being bought on the design. I don't know how much of that holds true in the US.

[wally]

so germans like crochet??