Why patronize me if not for some of the reasons I have suggested? (trying to save face, trying to prove or raise social status)
Originally Posted by jonkeefe
I question if my writing is so odd to warrant making an issue of it. To me, it seems the reason you may not be able to fully describe why my phrasing is odd to you, could be that it's not my phrasing that's perhaps so odd, but because I'm maybe not following certain social norms (with my questioning, requests, and analyst), and you are conflating the two. I think another possibility could be that you may desire to find fault in the way I have expressed myself, so there is a reason to blame me for peoples reactions, including your own. This seems a likely possibility to me, because you seem to evidence a desire to find and express fault with my communications (my phrasing), my status (noob in print world), my brain (possible autism-mental disorder), etc, and these seem to be rationalizations for why you and others are behaving as you are, or why else are you bringing up all this stuff? I don't think my phrasing makes comprehension significantly hard for others, or communicates that I'm not for real in my investigation. Nor do I think my noob status is detrimental to the purpose of this thread, and as I mentioned before, I'm meticulous in my posts so I may hopefully get a sufficient understanding to believe in what people are claiming. In sum, I think your apparent rationalizations are unconvincing.
It might be to much effort for some to be interested in answering my questions, and I can understand that, but I think many are not interested in answering many of my questions for the reason I have suggested (saving face). I think the more answers given to many of my questions and requests, the less ambiguity will likely remain concerning the situation, which is not a good thing if one is trying to not be revealed in some way, or is hiding behind poor excuses.
So, to summarize, you came on a bit too strong, your questions are too much effort for most people to be interested in answering, and your insistence on analyzing people's responses makes you seem like a bit of a jerk, even though that may not have been your intention.
I do not want to be perceived as a jerk or an asshole, and if I can avoid being perceived as those things without compromising my integrity then I would like to learn how. If you think I come off as a jerk for good reason, then please help me understand why you think I deserve to be apparently perceived this way. I think I'm sharing my analysis of peoples behaviors so as to expose possibilities that others might not be aware of, including the ones doing the behavior. Many of these behaviors I perceive I do not approve of. I do not want to be passive to them if they're occurring, thus I want to expose them to others. I think this will hopefully help limit them and create healthier relating.
It seems you are sharing an analyst of people's responses, so I think on your own terms you should be perceiving yourself as a bit of a jerk. Unless you want to be a jerk, this evidences to me that you probably think sharing an analyst of peoples responses does not really warrant being perceived this way. If you do not think it warrants being perceived this way, but framed it as such, then I think that would further support my claims that efforts are seemingly being made to intentionally or unconsciously save face, or raise social status. What more coherently explains your behavior here, besides the possibility that you may want to be a jerk (which I doubt since you seem to be a pretty nice fellow)?
I think your comment here strongly suggests that you are either affected by a cognitive bias, or are intentionally trying to reframe my questions so as to make them seem non legitimate to others. It seems to me, you and others may be trying to discredited my questions concerning beauty, by implying that they are not answerable, using a notion I have already twice explained does not seemingly correspond to what I'm asking. I think you could be trying to stack up social proof to influence others and maybe myself. I've been asking for personal opinions, not some universal objective judgement. I'll quote below what kim_a wrote and my response so you can see that your comment concerning beauty does not seem to address what I've been asking, but if you disagree then please explain why.
Beauty is a subjective quality, so it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to objectively judge whether one piece of art is more or less beautiful than another.
"Now, as to whether any of those two printed images is perceived as "more beautiful" than the other, that is purely subjective and thus by definition, impossible to answer objectively. There is absolutely no guarantee that there is no single person who will enjoy the digitally processed image more than the analogue-stencil one." - kim_a
"I have not been looking for absolute truths to which print is more beautiful, and if you have carefully and critically read my posts, then I find it hard to understand why you are stating this stuff here, except perhaps to create an illusion that I have been stupid in asking my questions and requests concerning beauty. In light of the apparent social dynamics that have been going on in this thread, I do not find this possibility unlikely.
I have been asking people if they perceive a certain process's outcome over another as being more beautiful to them in general. I'm also trying to discover if there is a consensus about such things. Do you find one print (analogue vs digital) more beautiful than the other in general, and if you do, do you think you understand the factors that make you perceive it so? If you are going to say it depends on the print, and you cannot make a generality, can you please give some of the factors it would likely depend on." - expose
Your advise to figure things out for myself and then to ask questions does not seem to be very coherent to me.
I doubt you'll get any more replies to your questions unless you actually start screen-printing, start figuring things out for yourself, and start coming up with succinct, specific, answerable questions. Until that happens, most people will assume that it is a waste of time to respond, unless it's to make a quip or humorous remark (which usually are posted for the amusement of the original poster, or other forum members) at your expense.
I would appreciate it if you would substantiate why you think my questions have not been succinct, specific, and answerable, otherwise I will be left to think you are probably trying to falsify the reality of my questions so as to justify the behaviors of you and others (calling me a troll, apparent tactics to save face, etc). If you look over my posts, I think you'll find that most of my questions appear to be the things you suggest they are not.
You could be right in thinking I probably wont be getting anymore replies to my questions, but I think you are doing a disservice to the potential of me receiving answers from others with aspects of your post, as it seems to me you are creating social pressure for others not to reply. I believe you are clearly suggesting that my questions have not been succinct, specific, and answerable, thus creating a frame that could influence others to feel they will be perceived as stupid in trying to answer them. You also seem to suggest that help is often given to those who have wielded a squeegee, and not so much to those who have not, thus perhaps creating a social norm in the minds of some, whereby they then may become afraid to deviate from that apparent norm because of social pressure to fit in. I think further social pressure has also been created by you and others, as I think a group has seemingly formed in opposing me, rather than to truly help me (though I think in your earlier post you truly tried to help me). Thus if one were to try and offer me help, they could perhaps feel a loss of social value among this opposing group.
I thought you made me out to be a total troll, remember? What has caused you to seemingly change your once confidently stated position?
Please understand that although you may have the best intentions, nobody here really seems to know what to make of you.
If nobody here knows what to make of me, then I don't know why, for I have clearly let my intentions known, and I don't think I have been inconsistent.
No, it seems inaccurate. For an explanation please look above at my last reply, and at Occam's razor - you jokes or jokers.
Originally Posted by jonkeefe