I'm not even sure I know what "emo" means, but I think many of the art students I went to school with could have been emo. Like, "I'm a complex person...nobody understands me, or why I have my hair flopped over one eye".
"Oh, and just LOVE The Smiths."
ok. good emotionalize and sensational argument. now we're getting somewhere.
so, when were you beaten? recently? or perhaps you parcipated in a beating and heard the word used?
did it mean they were suspected homosexuals? or perhaps feminine and therefore and insult to women?
"i can certainly think of a large number of terms that are certainly insulting. like i really hate being called an "artist"
when, as you are beaten and killed, your attackers are yelling "artist" at you then I will take up your cause.
Until then, as a gay person, it just makes me think someone as intelligent as yourself could probably find more suitable words in your vocabulary.
oh, and i really thought "sunny day real estate" were an interesting and solidly musical combo, even though they helped pioneer "emo". i even worked on some of their stuff. but, i realize now the evil of their ways and don't praise them.
well, until i actually am told it's a slur by the organized and generalized coalition of folks who representative and have a reasonable argument to present, then i have to assume it only insults a couple of oversensitive folks out there. i'll happily stand corrected then, and will honestly remove the word from my lexicon.
as it stands right now, i have been told by many folks that it isn't a slur. and i have been told by only a couple that it is. so, educate me with info, not isolated opinion.
besides, a person's sexual interests is of no interest to me (well, maybe in a kinky sort of way). however, i view the term "fag" as a generalized area of interests describing taste and culture. men who have feminized interests (straight or not) are 'fags' in the cultural slang. it's origins are not sexual. the sexual reference is of very recent origin. the word "gay" is older usage and it's not necessarily a slur, either. calling someone "homosexual" isn't a slur, either. since when is it bad to be called "homosexual" in contemporary culture unless you are a bigot?
i can certainly think of a large number of terms that are certainly insulting. like i really hate being called an "artist", i find it degrading and belittling and more than a little stupid/ignorant. however, i don't run around condemining folks for using it. it seems trivial.
any professional-level activist gay folks out there who want to officially step in with the collective opinion?
but, this is a great poster. have you noticed the tv screen?
mike - of course, i'm sure that lots of us have male, gay friends who use the word. but gay dudes using "fag" is like african americans using the N word with each oter. co-optation of a slur, when you aren't part of the slurred group is weird territory. and, i don't think that was the original use here, or in most cases when men get into pissing contests with one another over who is more macho.
I like Dag Nasty. I was listening to the Decedents last night and I'll be damned if they don't fit the emo mold pretty well.
The gay dude's I know don't generally have a problem with the word Fag. And I kind of think over the course of time it's intent has been weakened in the lexicon. But, I'm not gay so i guess it'd be tough for me to really speak for the er... "Fags".
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gimme a break. fag is a term of insult historically and currently, unless you are a brit and talking about cigarettes, and you know it. seriously, either own up to being a jek (fine) or let it the fuck go already.
i think The Fucking Eagles is a great name for a band.
i like this poster alot.
i'll take the subsonics anyday.
i miss the gories but am glad the dirtbombs are alive.
i like the strokes , they're like the archies...but not as good as the monkees......i still love the velvets the most.
hey, if gay people like certain kinds of music, it's not an insult to call it "fag music". "fag" is not an insult, last i looked.
"fags" drift around a number of scenes and are instrumental in establishing them in the mainstream. i consider it an honor is somebody calls me a 'fag'. it means i have the ability to create taste and popularize ideas. al popular art is faggy, but some of it is more concentrated in particular subcultures.
not that there's anything wrong with that.
perhaps if i said "gay" it's NOT an insult? check your brain and find the problems with that.
i think your reaction to me is both hypocritical and hilarious. yer a real number, ya know?
don't you think this whole silly "argument" is a laff riot? i do. i've built an entire career and an international reputation based entirely upon ignoring "good" taste and "other peoples'" rules of proper behaviour.
yet, you get upset at being called (actually my calling emo fans) a 'fag' and somebody actually taking you to task on naming yourself "fuct".
good lord, you are a silly man, robbie.
art - you can call me a wimp or just make fun of my name some more. like i said youre not hurting my feelings. its weird that after being called names and even death threats that youve turned around just to call people names.
yeah. it's one of those records that i wish i could pull my credit line from it. i have about a dozen or so projects like that. if i had a time machine, i'd go back and say, "NO".
"projects i would like to pull my name off of and why" would make a great thread topic.
the fucking eagles are a spin off from seaweed? man, i didn't know that. seaweed treated me like dogshit on a project i worked on for them. it was a HORRIBLE experience. they actually left messages on my phone calling me names. their production artist re-designed a cover i did for them and it turned out lousy. they wanted their money back. their response was to blame me for their guy's incompetence. i played that tape for friends for a long time as proof as my experience with them.
man, i didn't know. i don't think i'll be bothering with the fucking eagles, now.
since when are there rules on this site about "taking things too far"? man, i've gone through bouts with actual death threats on this site and everybody's response was, "loosen up" or "quit being such a wimp". so, calling fans of emo 'fags' is over the line? did that hurt "feelings'? hell, i call metal heads 'fags' on this site and nobody gets upset.
but, i imagine that is because metalheads aren't in touch with their emotions like you are, mr. fucked. right?
emo suxs. i laugh out loud at your defense of the emo realm. HA HA!!
why not? he was an ass to me after i made sweeping snide generalizations about "emo" like, big deal. this is gp and we're all been complete swine on this sight. i havva right. - i didnt attack you. im stating that you took it too far. you went beyond insulting emo bands. you went to insulting fans that buy it. you dont get it. you dont care for it. not your taste. fine! but these kids that DO enjoy it are not "fags" for liking it.
The Fucking Eagles suck. Friend of mine got their album and I listened to it, half of it is bad covers of good songs.
from what i hear they're young so if they have good taste i guess they have a shot at not sucking in the future.
theyre good guys. i did a poster for a show at the funhouse they played with king khan & bbq. they seem to be getting pretty big just playing old school punk/rock-a-billy type stuff. maybe one day as big as the strokes.
yeah, you're right. BUT IT HURT MY FEEELINGS!!!!!
oops, i slipped into my emo mood again. must be all that "young people music" i've been listening to. i'd better go find some ratt.
i think he's saying you don't like emo because you're all old and to you its "darn kids music" and you guys "remember the old days when music was good(RATT.)" Not that I'm defending emo.
nice poster by the way.
y'all can chide me all you want. but if "someone like me" (thank you) dislikes emo in a 'self-lowred" generalized sort of way, i think you should listen to me. you said so yourself.
cockassery aside, emo is like opera. stinko. wonderful gay traditions and all, but i can't stand it.
but, that's just one man's opinion.
you didnt hurt my feelings at all. i just think its really funny that someone like you would lower yourself to just straight name calling. i deal with it when its some 16 year old hipster making fun outside a boys like girls concert. but i mean how old are you? if it was metal and someone insulted it this place would get all defensive. but because its emo its a whole different story. go and use my name to make yourself like a jackass. im fine with it.
golly! i'm sorry i hurt you sensitive and personal FEELINGS about emo. it's hard to believe that anybody who uses the last name of FUCKED could be so in touch with his feminine side. but, i guess emo folks are such a bundle of deep profound emotive surprises, huh?
i'll gaze at the floor for a while and dig deep into my personal child and find the proper emotions to express myself more sensitively in the future. i sense there is a more personal path of politically correct self-righteousness that i can follow if you direct me unselfishly. i can find the path to a smaller carbon footprint and unity with all things living on our shared planet in distress.
thanks you SO MUCH for having the personal integrity and emotional wisdom and self-conscious self-righteousness to point out my insensitive failings, mr. FUCKED.
- arthur samuel wilbur chantry III (aka "skippy")
i don't think real rockers care about inner feelings - unless it pertains to killing everybody. emo is an abomination . it is anti-rock. anti-punk. anti-good. emo is whiney, baby talk. emo is sniveling and childish. emo is a total waste of energy (what little it has). i've never heard an emo band that didn't make me laugh out loud and then wanna gag.
and girls don't buy emo. fags buy emo.
sensitive, sensitive, oh SO sensitive. makes me wanna slap them around and say, "get over it!"
never heard of les breast feeders. izatta band or sumthin'?
"sensitive emo rockers really fucked things up. they have a lot to answer for.
i really don't give the slightest shit about the inner feelings of twenty year old boys." - luckily youre not their target audience. they can rely on all of your teenage daughters, neices, grandchildren that do care about their inner feelings.
I've only listened to a half hour or so, and I liked what I heard...but if Estrus is getting ignored there, I gotta wonder.
I won a Sirius unit through CBC Radio 3 a while back. Every once in a while, I think about renewing my sub.
I always thought of "garage" as a catch-all for primitive, straight-ahead rock n' roll, based on what came out of the 50s and 60s, but it gets kinda messy when you try and put all of that under one umbrella.
Sucks about Little Steven's show. One more reason for me to not mess with Sirius.
And yes, Les Breastfeeders SLAY.
There are some cool different things happening in metal again. Bands like Genghis Tron and such. They make me excited that people are coming up with new ways to add to the genre. It's surely better than all of the "ironic" indy rocker metal bands. Ooof!
Yeah, it's not really a style of music I followed. I like some.
It's not unlike the thrash metal things that's going on now though. It's like it's 1988 all over again. Tons of those bands cropping up. It's scary when a big part of your life ends up as nostalgia for a bunch of kids.
I think the White Stripes are about 100x more interesting than the Stokes. But, I find the Hives 100x more interesting than them. And I find Les Breast feeders to be infinitely more interesting than all of them combined.
oh, and "garageshock" was a word that dave came up with for his weekend music event that he sort of regretted. he coined it way early - in the 80's, i think - and then it stuck and the scene got the label. then there were "garageshocks' being held all over the country and it took off in that direction. he never intended that at all. it was just a concert, not a scene.
sort of a mistake that couldn't be taken back.
when you start getting into whether or not "garage" is even a category, then it gets very vague. just what exactly is "garage" anyway? whatever definition you come up with, i can blow a hole through it.
but, in new york city, the strokes are considered garage. dunno why. i think most of the "music industry" pur them in that vague category. listen to little steven's radio show to learn all about garage. it's a "garage rock" show that refuses to play anything on estrus. go figger. it's like estrus never existed.
at estrus, nobody called it garage rock, anyway. it was called lots of things (you can use your imagination), but the folks around the estrus scene thought of it as punk. or hotrod. or surf. but, "garage" was too "retro" even for that scene. that term rankled nerves. i saw fights over the word.
Are the Strokes really a garage band? I never heard that in them at all. they just seem like boring collage rock. Garage rock is at least interesting. And that singers drooooning style of singing? Yikes.
Meritocracy- 1. an elite group of people whose progress is based on ability and talent rather than on class privilege or wealth.
2. a system in which such persons are rewarded and advanced: The dean believes the educational system should be a meritocracy.
3. leadership by able and talented persons.
I wish this is the way world was; however, I'm afraid I would still likely find my self in the lower middle.
every small city in america - hell in the western hemisphere - hell, the world! - has a strokes in their town. have had for over 40 years. are any ot them as big as the strokes? no. not really.
well, maybe the white stripes. but, they sound like an early 90's estrus band to me (but i'm biased that way).
check it out and get back to me if i'm wrong. there are great classic garage bands all over that never get the attention of a strokes simply because the strokes are nyc based. it's a reality.
media. machine. money.
I tought this was just to comment on posters. No one told me I could spout my thoughts and opinions on the bands relevance or whether or not they are even any good! Yes!! My comment numbers are going to Skyrocket!
There are no sustainable musical movements that come from New York anymore. Only fashion movements.
Anything that starts as a creative spark gets named and co-opted by fashionistas and then dies in two months, when their attention is drawn elsewhere, to some new all-night cocaine-and-haircut scene.
Anyone remember "Electroclash?"
the strokes is a band only of interest to new york. the rest of the country saw versions of the strokes a million times over the last 40 years. garage rock is still considered "new" only in new york city. they never had a garage scene. and the stokes are just so tired sounding out of the gate.
the reason the stokes are selling is because new york city's hype machine is turned on full bore to the local garage band, even thought it's a good 20 years behind the rest of the country.