Brute666, I can't fathom a poster being so bad or conversly showing such potential that it would merit the avalanche of criticism this one recieved. I think, and I'm sure you realize this, most of the antagonism directed at this poster is probably coming out of the distaste of a Dead Kennedy's reunion sans Jello. And it if it makes you feel any better, I got the Shakespeare reference (Hamlet, "Alas, Poor Yorrick) and thought it was pretty funny in relation to Jello.
I guess I should finally chime in on this since I'm half of the team who did this.
First, I'm not in the least hurt by any of this. Anyone who puts something on the net had better be ready to be criticized. If I couldn't accept that some people aren't going to like our stuff then I wouldn't post it or even do it in the first place.
Second, this site is about gigposters and any discussion concerning them is welcome. It's what we all come here for.
Third, I'll continue posting my stuff here because I hope to one day look back over my progression as an artist/designer. I collected quite a few b/w posters during the 80's from some very excellent artists who were just starting out, and even though they might not be up to par with the stuff I see them doing now, I still like them just as much. Hopefully, someone might like our stuff as it is, but they'll also see our growth and progression and respect where we started from and where we ended up at.
I appreciate all the constructive criticism and believe me it has been noted. I'll give a little peek into the thought process behind this particular poster so you can see what we were trying to do and maybe respond to those critical statements.
First, I'm a huge horror fan, so yes, hitting all the Return of the Living Dead cliches were intended. DK has been dead for a long time. Having a ROTLD theme seemed right.
We're very aware of DK's past cover artwork. That stuff is great and it makes very profound statements sometimes. We're also very aware that Jello was the political force behind DK and he is no longer in the band. Trying to mimic the old image for this incarnation of the band seemed wrong and we were not going to attempt to co-opt the old for the new.
The Frankenstein monster-girl represents the death of punk as we knew it (the 80's in Houston was truly a great time for us and the punk rock scene) which has been brought back to life, but not completely (the new scene is tepid at best, but improving). She is attempting to bring back her old love (DK... punk at its best) but like her, it is not the same.
The skull is alluding to Shakespeare's famous line in Caesar... "Et tu, Brute!" Jello feels completely betrayed and so do a lot of fans (see Jello's rants on the Alternative Tentacles website). Maybe it was a little ambiguous since nobody seemed to get it, everybody just saw a skull.
The copy on the tombstone was slapped on and distracting. I really wanted to make it chiseled into the stone without color. I'm sure it wouldn't have been as noticible, but still made its point. All my copy is a computer font or a quick manipulation of a computer font. I would like to create my own lettering but we're still working on our layouts and design (baby steps first, thank you). Also, I'm not sure about the time frame other artist work with but this particular show was to be promoted heavily and quickly. No excuse for shoddy work but I did make concessions to the reality of my deadline.
Colors... what can I say? I'll work on it and I'll definitely look up "Designers Guide to Color Combinations" (Thanks for the tip Scrojo). I would hope I have room for improvement otherwise I would just stop right now and never pick up a pen or brush again.
I won't comment on the line weight since my partner did that. He'll speak for himself if he feels the need, but he reads these comments also so it has been noted.
Thanks to everybody who posted on this poster. Brutefish was mentioned more today than we have been in the 7 months since we started doing this. That's better than not being mentioned at all. I'm definitely appreciative of every post... good or bad. Hopefully, everyone will continue to discuss our future posters.
Sorry for the long reply but 54 posts is quite a bit to reply to.
Thanks to Freddy for calling me "young". BTW, I'm older than Jermaine. :cry: :-D
Yea, if youre in Texas Brutefish, why not talk with Uncle Charlie or Jermaine Rogers or some of the other poster community there. Maybe they can give you some pointers with layout and concepts and the like, as these guys have kind of 'been there-done that'. I dont know what city youre in but I think those guys are in Austin or Houston.
i think poster mistress called it right. what we really need is some constructive crits. so, for what it's worth, here are mine:
*color: there is definetly too much going on. keep it simple. check out the book 'designers guide to color combinations' by leslie barga. good shit and easy to follow.
*layout: it's a bit bland and loses focus on what are the main focuses. also the 'dk' logo and type on the tombstone just seems 'slapped on' and is distracting. check out this site for some simple yet amazing ideas in layout.
*concept: not bad but you definetly hit on all the 'return of the living dead' stereo-types. i think a fun one would have been to make zombie-girl into a gravedigger/graverobber.
* i hope you take this all in the right way brutefish and keep posting. i'd dig to see your progress.
Cmon now..getting the gig or the poster job isnt THAT hard. Its basically knowing somebody at the venue and asking for the job or calling and saying 'can I do it- ill give you some free'. I think aanyone couldve gotten it that way. The poster/art could use some work, thats all.
Gee, Goadsmom why are you so offended by me talking shit about Geneswig? Hmmmm, I wonder.
And actually you make a good point about nobody noticing my posters until Geneswig has made his comments. That's why I look forward to anything he has to say because it causes others to look. I guess if he really wanted me to go away he wouldn't say anything about work, since nobody would look at it until he says something......
now now,no need to get into a cafuffle ;-) i wasn't saying that everybody who's an artist has to be great and that the idea of improvement doesn't exist.I was merely pointing out that somebody who's doing a poster for a band of the dead kennedys calibre SHOULD be at least, a bit great! Those collages on the kennedy's albums were brilliant,it seems amazing to me that they've allowed someone who can only come up with a not-very-good drawing of a zombie with a skull,to do a poster for them.I'm very surprised they got the job on their current ability,is all i'm sayin.
Oh, that's right, I forgot that everybody who is an artist is born great, they don't have to work up to anything. I look at stuff that I did a few years ago and it makes me cringe, as I imagine I'll look at stuff I do now in a few years and see all my mistakes as well....it's called improving. But I never would have improved if I didn't surround myselves with artists who I could learn stuff from and would give me their honest opinion....maybe I'm living in a dreamworld full of leprechauns and talking donkeys, but that's how I like to work.
Well this one certainly caused a bit of a hoo hah didn't it?!I agree with what bopst is saying in that this poster just isn't good enough or in any way suitable for a band like the dead kennedys. I don't know what they're like now,I didn't even know they'd reformed but still, I think they couldv'e done something better themselves instead of being represented by this rather amateurish drawing - the letterings even unimaginative and it was done on a computer for pete's sake! I'm aware these guy's may be new but that doesn't mean they have to be bad! They've done a lot of second rate posters for a lot of first rate bands and I'm wondering how thats been able to happen!I know this sounds harsh but I'm with bopst in trying to tell it like it is,sorry if the truth hurts guys. And by the way, I'm not trying to run them out of town or anything,I'm just voicing how I see the work in front of me. :-)
I didn't say you can't call it out, I'm just saying you should back it up with some advice or not say anything at all. How is that cowardly? If I was cowardly I would hide under a fake name with no contact info and spew a bunch of insults. (geneswig)
True enough, I guess if a wee bit cowardly. I just can't believe people find this visually interesting. I realize I have posted little constructive criticism regarding this poster, but I bet the artist can take it and if not, oh well. What I think doesn't matter. We'll all do what we do regardless of what some someone sitting behind a computer thinks of our diligent efforts. I tried to stop telling it like it is, but what fun is that? Why write anything? The old adage that if you don't have anything nice to say than don't say it is a crock. Shit, why have a message board? I love the good, the bad and the ugly and that's why I'm here. I can take it as well as dish it out. I don't think this is a place for the faint of heart, is it because the real world is full of less than constructive criticisms and to not call it out would be doing the site a disservice. I'll leave the helpful advice to the rest of you.
Yah, this is supposed to be a different environment for people to hear actual advice about what works and doesn't work about their posters. I guess you could call a safe haven if you will, away from the typical on the street love it or hate it response. A few months ago I sent some of my work to Bob Masse to check out and he said that my women's hands looked a little chubby. After that I've taken a lot of care in making sure my hands look better than they did before. That's the kind of criticism that I'm looking for, the kind that will help me improve. I think this artist has potential, but he's not going to improve if you just say his illustration sucks. If you do think it sucks, tell him what "sucks" about it. Personally I don't like the coloring, (too many colors all across the board) and the lineweight could use some work (lineweight is too uniform. Use some varieties of width to represent weight and shadow). Hopefully, this kind of advice will help him make his next poster better.
ps. this wasnt a sales pitch... i sell stuff i hate.. you can also just buy it from the artist.. just made a comment as i liked it...
ok im done. ill let the bo dude fight it out... harsh words however
No defense necessary. I don't give a fuck about what anybody else thinks about it. I love my stuff as everyone here most certainly loves their own stuff. It is telling that you haven't any visual pursuits of your own so all your words have that ever so hallow ring to them. Just sit on the bench and keep it warm while the rest of us are out on the field.
Again, mere words are far too weak to describe all the ways this poster is lacking.
I hope it sells a million......
PHILAARTS, of course ya like it: your sellin it! :lol:
Really, tho, I think PM is right. How about some constructive crit for this young artist rather than the open insults. Obviously, the poster could be much better. Ill start- I think the drawing could be much better. The line artwork is a little untrained for my test, but maybe thats just me since I look at lots of posters.
Each artist on this site is at a different skill level. I would think constructive criticism, advice or encouragement from those at a more advanced level would be a more community-minded way to comment on posters than just ripping them apart.
Diplomacy is the word I'm thinking of here....
first. im not the artist.
if you think a 3rd grade education of photoshop to your collages is worthy of any artistic collectibility, prehaps go get the new photoshop program.
you have a very high esteem for your artwork. i have yet to see anyone chime in to defend or commend your "artistic" merits.
...a dead kennedys show w/out jello is like a dead kennedys poster w/out winston smith. it's kind of appropriate if you think of it that way.
brutefish* keep working at it. you're definetly getting 'trial by fire'.
You are right about me hating the current state of the band though the poster stands on it's own merits of laughable content & questionable execution. Yeah, I sell those 3x3's for a 100 bucks and I doubt you'll find anyone who thinks this spawn of one's bowels can touch one of those babies in any artistic sense of the word. I see you don't have any work yourself on here to be viewed and, if you do, I'd love to see it. You must be some sort of genius.
'The poster screams of the impending stupidity to be on full display on that night so I guess it's successful at conveying that, but exactly like Hitler's wholesale slaughter of the Jews, being good at something doesn't always make it right.'
wow. I wont go THAT far, but the image is pretty amateurish. But like everyones said, this artist is new, so you cant expect the quality of some of the 'name' artists. The subject matter and the artwork need a bit of growth, but that'll come with more work, right?
I looked at this guys other work, and it has potential. Art and layout just needs to improve.
Mr. Backdraft: At least I don't use the most banal imagery & concepts imaginable to get the job so poorly done as this one so willingly settles for less as if it were a badge of honor to have such a limited graphic scope. This one also drives home the point that Punk Rock has been reduced to a playground for mental midgets safe in their little world of mind numbing mediocrity. I can see this show now, chock full of idiots posed, ready & willing to fail as they pound one another into a bloody pulp. The poster screams of the impending stupidity to be on full display on that night so I guess it's successful at conveying that, but exactly like Hitler's wholesale slaughter of the Jews, being good at something doesn't always make it right. Pitiful art for pitiful people........
Yea, this is weak. All of these guys stuff looks the same. I dont know if its lasercopy, but Im sure its gotta all be offset.
But like was sais earlier, these guys are just starting out, so its cool. But the line-art does need to get better just to stand out.
i do agree with you,this poster isn't really the kennedys is it. it would've been more at home with megadeth or something,kinda trashy really. no offense to the guy that did the poster,we're all in the same boat after all - its just a female zombie holding a skull next to a grave is a pretty lame effort considering its for someone like the dk's,jello or no jello.
Dr. Know was one of the several million flaccid bands Mystic Records ripped off in the eighties. Totally unmemorable in every way. This could be passed off as some great rock & roll swindle, but don't be fooled. Alternative Tentacles has been fucked royally by this & for a label that has put all so many great bands & ideas, this is inexcusable. As I've said before, this poster is successful at summing up what a pathetic plea for cash this tour is by utilizing the most trite, cliche imagery imaginable.
"Every gimmick hungry yob
digging gold from rock & roll
grabs the mic to tell us
he'll die before he's sold
but I believe in this
it's been tested by research
He who fucks nuns
will later join the church"
The Clash, "Death or Glory"
It kills me that these guys are doing this tour without Jello. The poster drives the point home that greed will always prevail and, just by virtue of a bankable name, it'll sell to someone out there. I don't want to rag on this one too hard considering that these guys are just starting out, but this one is just too limp not to be called out.
This one IS pretty weak. I agree, it looks very 'amateurish' but I think these guys are fairly new so there is possibility for growth. The layouts are a bit off in their work. Its got potential, tho. The actual line-art needs to kind of improve, to be on par with the standard line-art quality in the field.
But again, this artist has potential, in my opinion.
These look like lasercopies. Are they?
What a rip off. No Jello? Poster lacks as well milking the vein of rebirth with sophomoric approaches to design and color. All the cliches are in full effect(skulls, chicks, death). I guess it suits the current nature of the band, but this one leaves me limp.....