Well, everything that has been said here has had at least one good effect. Ironhead didn't want this art, so it's not an official poster as is. My band (a rock band), however does. I'm sending Rica the show info soon, so the poster will be edited, printed and posted around Austin to promote our gig. Plus I'll ship some posters to Europe so Rica will have some to sell. It'll also hopefully make it into Sal's book now that it's official.
Paul Harvey. Good day.
good conversation is organic. if rica was upset, he'd say it or if anyone thought he was upset, they (hopefully) wouldn't have this discussion here, on his poster.
i love when a good debate/discussion breaks out in the comments as well as in the forums and in the chat thinger.
When controversy erupts again (and it will) maybe some forward thinking moron will take the conversation/arguement/whatfuckingever to the forums. Until then, this is out in the open for everyone to look at, and I don't think Rica is hurtin' at all for it.
This 'discussion' may very well be a 'good' one...
Whatever the case I think there are a couple of reasons why this should be done on the forums.. especially a 'broad' discussion like the one in this comments section
1) It is a generic discussion that does not exlcusively relate to this poster only.
2) The forums are a much better place for this because of searching and what not
3) I think its unfair to an artist like Rica if a great discussion that goes way beyond just his single poster is conducted on the comments section for his poster...
I said 'broad'
Renee is like a Cop. Mr. Gigposters Police.
Many of the best discussions and most important info on this site has happened in the comments. Not the forums.
When these things happen in the comments section it remains pertanent to the poster and how it all relates to the greater scene.
you are all morons
and why the fuck did ya'll have to have this 'discussion' in the comments section... keep that general shit away from people's posters because nobody can erase or edit shit here
Coop didn't get paid for those posters he made, neither did Kozik.
bands get paid shit too.
In America there is NO respect for artists of any kind and it is considered "playing", not important.
So, people do these posters cause they love to make them, and if they are lucky enough the someone likes them enough to let them post them up and maybe sell some, all's well that ends well.
Who Done How What For WHAT?
read how MaxFlo phrased it, to a T and multiply it by 98-99% of the poster artists here Tank. no pay, printing and funding that all on our own.
while you are coming home after hard work and THEN doing your art, so are the rest of us.
take a chill pill dOOd. dang.
Yeah, I get a whopping $20 a pop (and I use part of that to make copies for the bands). And since I've done 4 posters in the past 6 months I'm going to quit my day job.
I don't think I have ever had a band pay me back for poster printing, so you are way ahead of me. I think I have only been paid at all for maybe 4 or 5 posters i have done.
I also don't do this for a living. I work at home after I get home from work.
I think maybe you have the wrong impression of how this works for many of us.
im just sick of hearing all this , "these bands dont know good art", nobody appreciates my style". if your lucky enough to get stuff printed,(i pay out of my pocket, till the bands get paid for the gig.) just enjoy the ride.
TANKDONEONE
bunch-a-whiney lil fucks. so sick of hearing this shit. you obviousely all have a job in the "poster" , "rockinroll" sector. you all get paid to do what you love. i, however, work in a mold making studio. i get to do my art when i get home, covered in plastic and smelling of solvents. i dont even get paid for posters, let alone get them published in books. get over yourselves and do what you love to do.........
TANKDONEONE
Speaking of which, I just looked at a few thousand record covers in preparation for the history chapter of the Fistful book, and the same thing is true for all these record covers:
about 10% of the record covers look anything like what the music of the band is like. The rest are total absolute crap that made no sense whatsoever for the band's music.
No matter how nice the art was.
And guess what? All the bands that had great record covers that were relevant to their sound are still around and the rest are long forgotten. Artwork by Pizz, Kozik, Coop, Alex Wald, etc, actually CREATED a new rock scene and sustained the bands, cause were buying the covers for the art too.
Rock artists and Rock bands when they work together keep each other alive.
I think that Sal made some really great points. It's kind of nice to hear a person from the music side of what we do give us his viewpoint.
Now people should just try to listen to him. But, they won't.
i haven't read this entire thread, but i have to point out that putting a censor bar on ANYTHING autromatically makesa it offensive. that's why it's a CENSOR bar. you can put a censor bar on a turnip and it becomes offensive.
does a few silly comments in a chatroom really sell more posters? if so, that turkey chicken poster needs poster of the week..
this is alright, would have been great though without the bar over her eyes, the bar makes it look like some braces fetish child porn art..
do i have time to go get a lemonade before the feature starts?
as a feminist, i still don't get how this is "mean to women." obviously that is pretty subjective.
seems kind of a literal band name translation mixed with teen angst. i had braces, they didn't look like this this but they sure FELT like this.
No, they were interested in paying for a poster, if they liked it.
Both Tanxx and Rica are great artists, and I wanted to show more of their stuff in the book, to help them get more recognition. So, I asked them to make posters for bands that I know.
The band would have paid for somethng that they could use later.
Anyway, that's not the point here.
It's just the topic, not this particular exact case.
Well Dave, all any artist had to do is show the rough draft to the band and ask them if that is going in the direction they want.
If the artist doesn't like that direction, then they can say go get someone else to do it, or they can change it or do something different.
Piemel, being offensive is not the issue here, it could have been super dirty and offensive and the band would have liked it, if it represented them in some way, not some arbitrary way.
Anyways, I'm doing all the discussing about this, the band just said nope when they saw it and that's that. I'm just using this an example of something i think is important that many people ignore.
Rica is super talents and the art is totally great, that is not the issue here nor if the poster is offensive, cause that wasn't important to anyone.
im sure rica was getting mad bling for this poster too... works both ways..
when a band says "NO" after they put in good time etc.. most of the time they dont even get a paycheck.
works both ways... doing band work can backfire.. then what?
i agree with myself.
The band doesn't like it and want something else. I'm ok with that but i'm not gonna do that something else. Of course they're right not to print it if they don't like it, ot if it doesn't fit!
i understand what sal is saying. and can understand what the band is saying. and if it were just for a single gig and its off the mark its not that big a deal, its one show. butt for a tour i can understand if the band isnt into it and doesnt wanna use it for every city. i still like it and the beauty of this poster is, all you need to do to make it an art print is chop off the bottom. snip snip
and its salvaged no harm no foul the band doesn't use it and the artist has an art print
it's a nice piece of drawing and the band thinks so but:
-if they don't want it for them then they don't want it. (i think they are seeing Helllraiser or some stuff instead of what is there: braces. And they can't get around their first impression. Oh well. But we all know that these things are for bands and if the band don't think it's 'them' then that's that, pretty much, right?
-second: i have found that bands are often have really uncreative ideas about their own image. realllllly boring and safe ideas often come from the most 'edgy' band types. Show them this same exact thing in pink and yellow and green and see how they think. Perhaps they would like yet another flaming skull or a hammer with lipstick or or or
the best thing to do is say 'oh well' and go have some coffee.
bands mostly never get to say anything about all these posters we do and can be happy or sad or ambivalent about the result when they show up to gig and see it, so when they DO get to say yes or no, then you have to just abide and not complain too loudly outside your head.
Fuck it, I give up.
No one here can carry a series conversation about an important topic.
Forget it all about, sorry I even bothered.
Keep playing games while like Stainboy, Johnny Crap, Dirty Donny, and so on will always be in strong demand by customers, and others will be long forgotten.
Rica, please don't be mad, cause I'm not talking directly to you about this (especially cause I know that you don't believe me at all, I really don't think that you see what I mean)
But rather I am discussing this TOPIC about making relevant posters to the other people here.
I think that the topic is one of the most important ones for a gigposter. Someone could have no talent at all (ha, many people show that!) and still can make a poster that totally fits the gig and succeeds over someone with a lot of talent.
If this poster was shown here without any band name on the bottom,
everyone me included would love it just as much as they do now.
But, in the context of it being an Ironhead poster, it doesn't work.
There are lots of ways someone could have done a play with the Ironhead name that still would fit a hard rock band.
A little girl being tortured by her teeth doesn't do that.
Don't ask tanxx why I'm "selfish and egotistical" please. I understood that it was not doing the job!!! OK! It's just not gonna be in the book or an IRONHEAD poster! Good!Don't have to explain me 500 times something I agreed in the first mail I sent you!
tanxx, your Golden Gods poster was a clever way to show literal Golden Gods in the statues and you added sunglasses to their images to make it more "rock" "cool" "glammy" like the band's image.
I gave both of you the band's URLs so that you both could see their websites and what they were about.
tanxxx
I really don't get how Rica is selfish ?!
I'm not trying to offend him, I am tryng to explain, as any customer would explain, that if you give me something that ONLY you like instead of something I like then it is not doing the job.
It is selfish, as in egotistical, to just stick a bands' name on a piece of art, no matter how great it is drawn.
Tanxx, every one of your posters fit the sound/feeling/image of the bands you are making them for. You understand that connection.
If someone is new at making gigposter and they don't understand that connection, should it be said to them?
SOME bands have no distinct ROCK image, so a poster like this could be PERFECT for them, like say Nine Inch Nails, Slipknot, Korn, etc.
Would this poster make sense for Danzig or Cheap Trick or Motley Crue? No, cause they have a different image that is more narrowly focused
Perkins< sendme an email?
Sal< I'm ok with you when you say if the band doesn't like it they just don't use it (or you for the book). I cared about what you or them would have to tell me about it(but they didn't answered my mail), I just don't agree with what you said about exciting rock posters. All I told you is that those posters where my answers (to "make an IRONHEAD" poster), and if they or you want someone else's answer , good! There's no problem.
steve w
these ironhead people are clearly Grade A Morons.
Umm, the moron here is you.
A client wants a picture of a refrigerator and you give them a gorilla cause it was cooler, that makes sense?
If they are morons then you are calling me a moron.
I doubt I am a moron.
If you are too immature to understand what Stainboy, Mike Fisher, Kozik, and many others have said in the past, a gigposter is for the band's image not yours, your job is to do a great job, all facets of doing a great job. Relevant is one facet.
No, this is an important issue, I think very important about all gigposters. (and I mean this all in a friendly discussion/ debate way, not an angry way, ok????)
First, let me say that Rica does great work and the artwork is amazing and no complaints about talent shown.
Now, I asked him to do some pieces for the book because some bands I am friends with wanted posters cause they didn't have many good ones.
Rica didn't show me anything first, he just did them. Tanxx did that too, but her drawings DID fit the bands, they were art that worked well for a Rock band.
When Rica showed my the done posters, I said they are not really representative of a tour poster for a rock band. They are illustrations that he added the band name to arbitrarily. Any band name could have been stuck there. And that's the problem.
Why do a poster for a band that doesn't have any connection to the band at all?
This particular poster, the band saw it before I did and they told me that despite the art being great, they would never want to use it cause it confused them. They didn't see by just tacking their name on it that it represented their style of music at all.
It would have been great for a different type of band.
They play hard rock in the Motley Crue style of music. The girls in the band said the art was too creepy and the girl looked in pain and it didn't look like a fun rock n roll show. They said if they pasted these up no one would know that they are a 80s style rock band and that people would be misled by the artwork, no matter how great the image is.
AND, in my opinion, and other artists agree, it is very selfish to do a gigposter, which is supposed to advertize a band - isn't that a gigposter? - and not have it be relevant to the band that you are doing it for.
Can I give Black Sabbath a poster of a shoe, for example? No matter how amazingly great it was rendered, it sure doesn't give anyone any feeling about what Black Sabbath is like.
Likewise here and for the Clam poster he did, neither makes any sense for a rock n roll band.
It is just cool art for cool art's sake, it is not doing to job of a gigposter.
It is not functioning well as a gigposter, it is a art gallery piece without any thought or care for the CLIENT (me or the band in this case) and the end customer (the fans or POTENTIAL fans) seeing the poster and getting a feeling from it.
I don;t see how artist don't get that.
It is incredibly selfish to do something that has nothing to do with the band at all.
The art of making a gigposter isn't just doing an amazing image, it is that the poster is for gigs, to attract potential people to their shows. If the band is rock and someone does a gothic (for example) poster, it is confusing the potential audience and it can cost the bands maybe a lot of people who might have come to the show had the art been more relevant.
(changing the subject for a second, they didn't say it was mean to women, but that the girl looked in pain and a pained girl is not what they consider fun for their image)
Even Seripop's poster as fanciful as they are relate to the band that they are being made for. Her Slayer poster looks like it would be made for Slayer, for one example. Her other ones give you a feeling about the bands that they are done for, which is most non-rock noise or arty bands, she adjusts her images intuitively based on the bands sound, you can see it. Even if she does it consciously or not, it works that way.
If someone gives me an EF poster of a cute little ducky cartoon (not a franken ducky), would that be respectful of my vision of the band and my audience and my potential for attracting new people into rock to my shows who might be interested in our rock music?
No.
Sure this is a great piece of art, but it's not a fully functioning gigposter because it give a different message than the band's message, they are not both on the same page, there is no clear communuication. A gigposter is a means of communication.
This artwork is rad...if the band didn't dig it, I'd pull this version off GP and then sell it to another band. There are plenty of bands who would be proud to use this, mine included.
Thanks again to the supporters.
The point is I did this one for the book sal's workin'on. He allowed me to make more posters coz I can hardly make some here. He gave me bands list and I did this, sending it to bands. It was only for the book but Sal didn't like the 2 I sent him, he prefers the EF one I did, so end of the story, they just won't be in the book. I'm quite sad the band didn't like it but...the other I did for Clams they liked but I keep on submiting it here coz it always fails.
And about mean to women... no
"answer: tell them to get fucked and use it anyhow...great poster!"
you're representing THEM, as well as you. if the band doesn't feel comfortable with it, then you kinda fail.
i don't know the band so i can't comment about the relevance of this poster to their music.
that said, this poster is really great in my view, and not "mean to women". there are tons of posters that have leanings to or are outright sexist and/or mysogynistic and uh, this ain't one of them.
i have no idea what "representative of Rock music" means. but i think this is pretty Rock. too bad rica.
quote : Salcanzonieri 2005-10-25 20:03:03
It's a really great illustration
but there is a delima behind it.
It was for a rock band that has girls in it and the girls are scared of the poster art and feel that it doesn't represent them in any way, as they say it looks like it's for a gothic band instead.
So, what do you do when the art is amazing, but the poster isnt representative of the band at all and they don't like it and since there are girls in the band, they feel that it is mean to women and totally confuses people about what kind of music they are. They won't use this since it is not representative of Rock music at all.
So, what do you do then?
answer: tell them to get fucked and use it anyhow...great poster!
As a woman, I don't think this poster is an insult. I see many and many posters here that could be insults but certainly not this one.
what is a rock poster ? this question again ?!
Of course, if the band doesn't like it, it wouldn't be a tour poster, but the fact is that Sal asked rica to do tour poster, and now he says that it's not a rock poster. Rica has his own style. I really don't understand what's the problem here.
Considering it was created by a wiman I am not sure why they would think it is meant towards woman.
In the end if the band doesn't like it it's a failure. Which is really sad, because it is such a fantastic piece of art.
well if the band doesn't like it then yeah, no question, can't really be their tour poster can it?
if they didn't go with this art then i'd just use it on a different poster.
cool illustration though.
It's a really great illustration
but there is a delima behind it.
It was for a rock band that has girls in it and the girls are scared of the poster art and feel that it doesn't represent them in any way, as they say it looks like it's for a gothic band instead.
So, what do you do when the art is amazing, but the poster isnt representative of the band at all and they don't like it and since there are girls in the band, they feel that it is mean to women and totally confuses people about what kind of music they are. They won't use this since it is not representative of Rock music at all.
So, what do you do then?
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