As much as this sort of discussion has been done to death already on this site, it's great to read through all of this. Missed it the first time around.
Cool poster that generated a serious discussion and provided a lot of insight into this poster making deal.
The cut out crotch is just over the top! :o
This just popped up on the randomizer.... I never saw this before, it wasnt at the gigs for sale as the one that was , was that one with the planes over the suburban sillouhette. This must be another after gig poster... Never even seen this in local galleries.
Oh well.... nothing else to say , its already been said.
If you constrain an artist by telling him WHAT to create, perhaps the lack of freedom will suffer the result..granted..But in terms of HOW a poster is produced..credence to me goes to those who produce an original concept with an individual recognisable style that doesn't remind me of someone else's work.
This poster is beginning to grow on me but those first impressions are still lingering..the trouble lies with me..picking out aspects rather than seeing it as a whole.. Right now, even the pink and purple colours reminds me of Shag..
I have a problem here, I know..but the first step to a cure is recognising the problem..just give me time.
My partner Jesse at Patent Pending is 25, he's made maybe 15 posters and only been doing this (poster design) for a year, but in that year of working together I've learned more from him than my ego will allow me to fully admit. If I simply "sat back and watched" then I wouldn't be where I am (wherever the hell that is...). I saw Kozik's work in 1992 and decided I was going to do the opposite of what he was doing. No disrespect to him, he's talented but his mere presence and particular vision lead me down my particular path. My 3 year old daughter's pure, insecurity-free outlook on life inspires me. Tax form design inspires me. Horrible design inspires me. I've seen garage sale flyers that make me jealous. Fuck, I'll take it wherever I can get it.
It just so happens that I've been doing this for 12 years and with that (hopefully) comes a little bit of wisdom.And I'll impart that when I can - right or wrong. But I've also had amazing teachers who's insights have been immeasurable. People who've struggled, gone hungry, and kicked down doors with their vision. Doors, through which I simply walked. I want to kick down some doors for the people behind me to walk through. (Unfortunately, I'm deathly afraid that all I've been doing for 12 years is politely knocking on them).
As much as I want to totally agree with Peter (he said such nice things, and my ego loves it) I have to agree with Lure that we all have something to learn from WHEREVER it comes. For God's sake, I still have no idea what I'm doing. We ALL get so fucking stuck inside our boxes that it's impossible to see another point of view. Stuck in our "style". The great people in our pasts that we all look up to and have all put on our "best of" lists experimented; weren't attached to the outcome; loved the process of trying something different; kicked down those doors.
peter: no disrespect to jeff kleinsmith (he's got a very impressive body of work. and i totally agree with his post here) but rather than just "shut up and listen" as if we're all worthless pieces of dung, isn't it be better to interact, question and debate? wouldn't we all learn more? jeff might even learn something; or have a new point of view on aspect of the craft. as much as the younger voices can learn from the expeienced, the experienced can open their minds and learn from them. (i say this as an "older" designer that still wants to learn and be inspired.)
All I can say is when Jeff kleinsmith speaks I listen. Student teacher kind of thing.Alot of you should listen (or in this case read) and learn. He is a master at what he does. Period.Just do your homwork and look at what he has accomplished,even aside from just posters.Take it for what you will,but when a person like Jeff,or Arminski,or some of the others,care to share there comments,I say shut up and listen,you might learn something,respect were respect is due.
Jeff pretty much said what I've been trying to say in so many of my posts on here.
And to Max's question: "Why the need for all of these rules and stuff?" It's a poster, a piece of advertising, and being this, it has some built in rules: gotta have the show info, gotta get people's attention, gotta look good (though this is always subjective to what it's advertising...for some bands looking bad would look good, but that's off the point). It has to have rules because of what it is...
do you not have rules you set for yourself when you design a flyer or poster? Do you not have a basic way you choose to approach things (I'm not saying a style but a mentality/thought process behind your illustrations/designs)?
My favorite part of Jeff's comments were: "I care if all of those elements come together, perfectly. Few of the posters here do that, perfectly! That's why it's so energizing to me."
The struggle for making something that as a whole, complete piece is perfect is half the fun and half the reason I keep doing it, to strive harder to make it that much better next time. To only consider part of the equation (jus the illustration, just the type, just the colors)...it seems to me is not putting as much effort as should be put into it, but of course, this is me, from a more design point of view (though I've been told I'm more an illstratotor than designer)...like Jeff said, wanting to see it as a whole piece with all the elements. It would be like if a comic book artist was only good at drawing superman but couldnt' draw skyscrapers at all, or if Rodin was only good at faces and not the feet of his sculptures...it shoudl all be considered. And I think context should be too, it does need to fit the mood/feel of the band (I'm not saying their aesthetic, but it should remind you of them...even if abstractly...and I've said it before, this just doesn't feel like the Stripes to me).
And this comment:
"Once I fall in love with the end result I'm hanging it up."
...is right on. Coz I know i'll never love every part of it, and if I ever do, I'll know I've become soft and less challenging to myslf and the viewer, thus boring. That may not be what he meant by it, but that's something I've talked about with friends a lot.
I've been in front of this computer too long today and wasn't too lucid here...sorry...
I pretty much have to have a copy of this poster now. I don't even know who the White Stripes are, but I'm going to check them out for sure.
Darren, how can I get one of these?
Will you have them at your booth?
I pretty much have to have a copy of this poster now. I don't even know who the White Stripes are, but I'm going to check them out for sure.
Darren, how can I get one of these?
Will you have them at your booth?
I just thought i'd post up the info regarding the group show this saturday in Hollywood:
1247 Detroit Gallery
January 12th Saturday
MISS MIKKI (Sacred Tattoo, oakland)
TRAVIS T (10 second empire)
DJ KUTMA (Circular Acid trip)
KIME BUZZELLI (Show Pony)
MISS PUSSY PANTS
MIKE BLUE MENTHAL
DARREN GREALISH + (BOOTH)
VOO-DOO TATTOO ART
To Phill arts: Read a little further down at my entry and I try and explain the reasoning behind the image. Also I just dig sexy girls in poster art. And to Maximum Flouride My wife's name is Tara Mcpherson and her website is almost done. It will be www.taramcpherson.com
She aslo has stuff on www.cannibalflower.com
Her and I are going to be in a group show this Saturday in Hollywood with 13 other artists. I think I'll be the only poster artist and I am going to have my very first booth! If anybody wants info on the shibdig just email me at email@example.com
This crossfire thing is cool. My wife just graduated from the Art Center and her major is Illustration with a fine art minor. I on the other hand did not go to art school. I drank beer. Well like two years at a community college but they (at Art Center) have the very same competition. It's funny because I'm a Poster guy or whatever/Graphic Designer and she's a painter. So we go back and forth as well. I do wish I would get a thousand dollars for one piece however! She just sold 2 pieces at La Luz de Jesus last Saturday night! But I just say have fun with it!
lol! OK, I suppose it is now time to give this poster the "Most Lively Discussion about a New Release" award!!
I hope I never reach my peak... I've heard it's all downhill after that <--- my attempt at humor... :o)
you said it better than i ever could. and i agree. except, i don't think making a poster IS automatically design. maybe some new catergory is needed like 'folk designer'
a strong concept (to me) will always prevail. i can overlook other flaws if the concept is strong.
i can like something and think it's bad design. i can not like something and think it's well designed. i think that's what often hard to express in a sentence of two...
Poster Mistress asked: who should determine these set of rules. I say you do! I do! He does! My mom does! If I think a poster should be a certain way then I'm going to judge it based on that predetermined, self-generated set of criteria.
I (me) (and me only) see it this way:
When a poster is made it is designed. Some people draw there own images, some steal them. I steal them. I make "collages" with them. I appropriate and recontextulize. Whatever. Either way, an image is incorportated into an overall design. And either way, the end result is a piece of art that includes many elements: type, image, color, meaning, lack of meaning, paper, shape, size, technique, etc. All of those elements are up for scrutiny. If you don't want type to be scrutinized, don't do an advertisement (and that's all a poster is: a fancy ad) To my eye, every last one of those elements plays a role in how well I think the poster does its job. I can't look at a poster as just a cool illustration or just a great piece of type, or just a compelling theme. I HAVE to consider it as one whole piece.
You might think it succeeds because it's a naked chick with big tits, or just that there are tits at all. My mom thinks it succeeds because it's pretty. A promoter thinks it succeeds because the type is readable. A snooty designer (of which I am one) sees it as an overall design. I don't care how big the type is, I don't care if it's pretty, I don't care if it's the "most amazing illustration ever". I care if all of those elements come together, perfectly. Few of the posters here do that, perfectly! That's why it's so energizing to me. I'm struggling to reach that point everytime I sit down to do a poster. I always fail. I just keep trying. I love the process of making them. Once I fall in love with the end result I'm hanging it up.
Sorry to be incongruant and so utterly redundant, I just had to chime in a bit.
>>Is this a constructive conversation? Maybe. Does it make young, new artists that want to share their work with others want to post their posters here? I dunno.
if you were starting out would you rather show your book to 12 of the best designers at an AIGA function or to 12 design 1 students?
This website rules!!!!! I am obsessed with Poster Art and when I stumbled onto this site a few months ago I was in seventh Heaven! I put away all my porno mags! I finally found a community of poster artists where we can all talk and go back and forth. How amazing! I respect any and all of the people and poster art that is represented here. Last Saturday night I went to the SHAG opening at La Luz de Jesus in Silverlake and drooled over his work. That man is on and poppin! I also hung out for some time with the PIZZ asking him questions and talking poster stuff. I told him about this site. He hadn't heard of it! He does now. His stuff is strong. Cheers!
more. i hope it would make them think twice before producing a less then stellar design. push them.
sometimes we think so hard it hurts and nothing comes and we have deadlines. great, do it, get it done - but accept it for what it is and move on and be quick to bite the bullet. i posted two of what i think are my weaker designs - cuz i wanted to see what everyone thought. i half expected to get ripped - fortunately it arrived here below the radar (until now - i'm a dumbass) i'd like to hear someone who i respect call me on something. a type choice. a color, the idea. it pushes me. if i LOVE a piece nothing anyone can say will bother me. if i feel ambivalent i'm more likely to get hurt but that's ok - i'm still trying to figure it out. if i'm dissappointed in a design...well just try to say something harsher then i've already thought.
I understood what Vibe meant... I was simply trying to show that the way it was worded, it could be taken as being very pretentious.
I'm echoing what maxflo is saying... why does there have to be a set of rules? And if there are, who exactly gets to determine what those rules are?
ALL the opinions here are subjective as are what each of us likes or dislikes.
I've seen some posters here that are a product of good DESIGN that I don't think fits the band at all.... but that's MY opinion. Obviously the designer thought it worked or they wouldn't have done it.
Is this a constructive conversation? Maybe. Does it make young, new artists that want to share their work with others want to post their posters here? I dunno.
Okay Okay! This one sure pissed off and/or stimulated folks! My job is done. I remember the first time I saw those Red Devil chicks popping up in posters by Kozik and Coop and I remember being actually turned on! Maybe I had too many hormones going off at the time but I remember liking the simplicity in the lines and how strong the image was. As far as the concept here it goes.... Look at the White Stripes website and all the merch they put out. It's all the same vibe and look. I actually completely dig all of it as well. But I am not that guy who designs for them. I could have done that same type of style but it would of just been me duplicating that style. I wouldn't be proud of it. Somewhere in this forum someone said it looks like I used this poster to promote me more than the band. I try to do like 50/50. Maybe the White Striped dildo had a unconscious connection with me going to see them at Spaceland twice and it being SOLD OUT! Just kidding : ) I kind of hear ya a little on how maybe it doesn't connect but does a two headed puppy dog represent the MELVINS? I love that stuff! Anyway....I hope people dug it! I got a new one in the works for NEBULA that is proving to be a blast working on.
Thanks to Jeff Wood and the Poster Mistress for the cool words and to all the great artists on this website! Cheers!
"Those who shock easily should be shocked more often." - Lord Byron."
whoa, whoa. you could drive a car thru that leap. Of course illustrators can think. My respect goes out to those whose concept is the strong. I dig CONCEPT. I also dig big dumb ideas sometimes.
Max, you're right. but i had to accept that there were rules first, before i could go off and break any. and i always ask why.
Art is what you make it Vibranium. Rock art isn't any different. Why the need for all of these rules and stuff? I would argue that a poster for a rock band is about as far away (or should be in my opinion) from an anual report as you can get. This stuff should be fun to look at. What is the whole idea of rock anyway? to fit into someones idea of how music should be played? If that were the case it never would have developed at all. If this poster was for the BackStreetBoys I would say it may be out of place, but to my knowledge the Whit Stripes are not a pop band but a rock band.
There must be room for stuff that fallows design rules and for stuff that breaks all of them. I don't think that makes either one less important or less worthy of praise.
I mean, I like this poster and I like your stuff also, especialy the Super Suckers poster.
>>>>you gotta respect someone who can draw, but you gotta respect someone who can THINK more<<<<<
huh? So does this mean 'designers think more than illustrators? That they are smarter? Clarification, please... :o)
Straight up, Gutter punk. Its a great poster to look at. Would I have done a WHITE STRIPES poster this way? Nope. Actually, the WHITE STRIPES poster that Brian Ewing and I did together is MILES from this...but, so what. Its cool to look at. It promotes the show. And if it misrepresents the Stripes and brings the 'wrong' folks into the show, whats wrong with that? At least theyve been turned on to good music.
But I understand everyones posts about content. They make valid points.
I still like the poster, tho
Lure: saw it on your site, i was actually really surprised when i went there, didnt realize you had designed the elliot smith poster. wheni first saw it maybe 3 or so years ago it was a real influence on me.
take this argument beyond rock posters and you'll find your answer. if i designed an annual report without a concept? Or a movie poster? or a logo? why do posters not follow the same tenants? All of a suddne rock posters are above everything else? are rock posters SO different? are rock artists SO different? you gotta respect someone who can draw, but you gotta respect someone who can THINK more. To the artist who did this: i'm not speaking of your work - this sorta became the forum.
Hey, lure: I looked at some of your posters on your website...Just so I could see the mind of who I was conversing with...and I absolutely LOVE your theater posters, especially MACBETH. Have you ever seen the theater posters of Weislaw Walkuski? He is my FAVORITE artist currently, and has influenced me to begin painting at least 40% of my posters from here on out, using different media. Check him out here: http://www.theartofposter.com/wwalkusk.htm
Im interested in what you think...
yeah I said it works as a poster, I didnt' say it worked for this band...I know a lot of work went into it...but...I guess I'm tired of every band on Sympahty or Estrus being lumped into the "trashy sleazy low-brow" overdose of imagery...not all the bands on those labels are the same, and it kinda seems like that's what happened here...a generalization was made. I'm sure this drew a lot of people to the show, but they might have been expecting something else.
lure: i think your stuff is appreciated here, and i definitly think you need to post more, dont hold back, especially those elliot smith an Low posters, really really great stuff as far as im concerned.
wow, im glad i commented on this, got up made the comment, went to my buddies house for some grub.. come back, damn!! its a nice poster... i just wanted to know the motivation behind the image chosen...
well, time for me to jump into this mess: I though this was for electric grankenstein or something. It doesn' say white stripes to me at all.
Personally I think an image should somehow work within the context of the band it's being done for (exceptions maybe being a halloween show, something like that where a theme already exists). I'm a huge white stripes fan, I have been ever since their first 7" came out...and this just doens't feel like them at all.
But that's just me.
It's a good poster coz it works at getting all the info down and grabbing your eye, it just doesn't fit the band in my mind.
I like the Melvins poster, lure. I like that Modern Dog look very much, but I also like the illustrative works a great deal, too. In fact, there's very little I don't like... :o)
I don't look for deep meaning in gig posters... it's all eye candy to me. I go by my first impression... my first impression of this poster was "Wow, this is cool"
Like Jermaine and others said, I just don't feel that I need to break it down any further than that.
I'll have a new favorite poster in a few minutes anyway...
mistriss, me too, i'd rather look at this half naked girl than a rump roast as well. and if you're referring to my melvins poster, i don't think my stuff will be very popular here. it goes against the grain a bit. too simple, too graphic. but this is all subjective isn't it?
captain, you're right, there's a definite rift here. but, it's interesting to me to hear the different points of view.
captain, can you say dildo?
jermaine, i don't want to unlearn what i've learned. there's a lot to be said for the emotional element. but the concept is what matters most. but, in the case of concert posters, the concept should relate to the band in some way. i don't know white stripes. should i go by this poster to get any idea of what they are about? for me, just making something look cool is NEVER enough.
This piece just grabbed my attention. Therefore, I commented.
Yeah, it IS a genuine non-negative comment. I try not to slag a person's work, regardless if I hate it or not. Working as a professional artist in the comic book industry for the last 11 years has given me a thick skin about my own art, but I remember the early days when folks would overly analyze and criticize my work which sometimes would take me days to do. I'd hate to think of one of my comments negatively affecting a person's future work. I remember back then how negative comments affected me.
If ya don't have something nice to say, don't say nuthin at all. Then again, with the volume of art on this site, i'd be at the computer forever commenting on stuff, and I'd never get any work done. I just like to give a thumbs up with art that I like and let the artist know he's doing good stuff. Don't think too much about how you are creating your art, just CREATE!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as the beholder of this piece I dig the fact that she looks kinda Disney-esque. With a touch of Aeon-Flux hair type stuff thrown in. Preferably I woulda liked her NOT getting ready to jolt herself into oblivion with her toy, or showing her goodies to the world, but that's just me. I tend to think showing LESS and teasing works better.
I like the color scheme. Chitty Chitty Bang Bang springs to mind for some reason...this poster DOES seem to be alive. I like the fact that he incorporated electricity bolts into the background as a design element. It's a fun piece. Not crazy about the text at the bottom, but at least it doesn't seem to be overly stiff comp fonts. They kinda flow, even if they ARE comp fonts....
ya know, this is just stupid......
I think it's kind of ridiculous to try to overanalyze "why" I think something looks cool to me. To know why, you would have to look at everything my eyes and brain have ever comprehended over
the past 34 years and try to formulate how that and my environment have affected my outlook on life.
Basically, I just like it cuz it looks COOL. Nuff said.
Great job Darren!
I think there is a definite rift between design schools here. The Illustrators vs. the "comm arts" designers as someone called the style. Personally i dont respond well to this application either, mostly because initially the posters doesnt say white stripes to me, on the other hand thinking a little about their music i can see how this kind of erocisism might apply. why is her candy cane hooked up to a battery?
Exactly. UNLEARN the habit of breaking everything down...if thats a habit you have, I mean. The main purposes of promoting have been accomplished with this poster. I love a line Todd McFarlane gave in an early 90s interview. Commenting on similar sentiments by art 'students' to overanalyze the work he did, he basically said, 'Whatever happened to something just looking 'cool'? I totally agree, and I primarily blame art-schools across the world. They 'dehumanize' individuals. They make you see 'art' as a series of processes...moreso than a series of 'emotions' produced visually. Remember when you were a kid, and something just 'looked good'? THAT was pure. You may say it was 'uneducated'....but it was pure nonetheless.
How are we to judge the art of the Maori, who have no 'schooling' in what they do?
What about the artwork of the Dogon? It's amazing how THESE things are broken down in MANY art school classes...yet, the original art was born about with NO adherence to technique. Man, Ill say it till the day I die...you have to BALANCE secular art study with the natural 'eye' you were given as a child. Picasso said that people lost that as they got older because it was 'stolen from them'. Stolen by whom? It's interesting to think about.
It's fun to look at, It's interesting and a great use of a vector program to create the piece.
Cool colors...very tight.
Why overanalyze it?
Music posters should be interesting, attract attention, promote a show. How it gets there is our job.
I think Darren did a great job on this piece. I'd be proud of this type work coming out of my studio.
genuine non-negative comment. what's cool about this? is it unusual? innovative? different? groundbreaking? conceptual? fun? shocking? titaltinng (sp)? controversal? colors? type? layout? i don't get it? i'm trying to get an idea of what is working - what appeals to ya'll.
very cool image.. i like it.. im sorta familiar with the white stripes.. why did you chose this image for the band? dont get me wrong i love the poster.. but im trying to understand the choice of image..