What does THIS image have to do with SKY CRIES MARY? Yet, it was embraced by many folks. Its a good poster. You cant have it both ways. The design crowd and the illustrative crowd must measure out a deal of SPOKEN respect for each other.
I was not talking about kozik or our other screenprint poster artists in my former post Basil,What I meant by in your face was,the glossy giant offset photo,posters that labals pump out.
"Stagnation" come on.This is the least stagnate stuff I see coming out,every time it's something new and interesting,a twist on something older yes,but still good design.I uderstand your comments but I stand by mine 100%.If your complimenting vibranium as the FIRST,I pretty much agreed with everything he said.So Make that two and do the math.
Sorry Pete, but that just doesn't wash. Saying that the 'in your face' stuff is mainly 'mainstream' is just NOT true. KOZIK has done more ESTRUS/ Sub Pop posters than MANY artists COMBINED, and some of them...ALL of them are in your face hardcore imagery. Thats just a fact. Ive seen Lindsey Kuhn, EMEK, Jermaine, Drowning Creek, Forbes and Hess do 'in your face' artwork for MANY of the indie bands out there and pull it off WELL and with some regularity.
I will take Vibraniums argument that it's all 'opinion' and subjective to the viewer. But, in a friendly way, I just think your statement about mainstream vs. indie just doesnt wash. Theres too many examples of the opposite.
I thought that art was all about breaking boundaries. Even if what you said WAS true, if this genre of music is so challenging and the artwork that promotes it is the same, then stagnation is what you DONT want. And thats how this look is becoming to me, stagnant. Again, this is my opinion. Im not knocking yours. Its why I complimented Vibranium. I think he was the first person to give me what I feel was just a stripped down honest answer on this and not try to make it some 'artsy' issue about design, or music, or whatever. I think he was right: again, its in the 'eye of the beholder'.
I have to agree with vibranium,because he has pretty much hit on some good points and backed them up.There is room for creativity in design and finding that diamond is a great feeling maybe you only get that feeling as a designer,cause your constantly on the look for it.Again it is opinions but you have to understand what jeff and Art(among others) are doing is beautiful and interesting solutions to design projects.Also understand and look at what they advertise FOR. Take yourselves OUT of the mainstream for a minuite and realize half of the posters there designing for are for punk,indi,etc...non mainstream music that the majority of the public has never heard of.It's a community almost.I'm being a bit broad here but what I mean is,if you listen to a certain kind of music, (SubPOP,Estrus in this case) then you know there work,you know the labals music,and you sort of have an idea of what to expect,you WILL go to a show even if you never heard the band but know the artist advertising for it or recognize the labal.Most of the music as is the art is creative,innovative and diffrent just like the art is.If you want in your face,simplistic,easy to understand posters,then you WILL find it in your mainstream music that is being advertised.Check out a bunch of posters here you will notice,that the mainstream or easily recognizable music is clearly identified,most of the time the art relates somehow to the band,there is nothing wrong with this,I have done it myself,managers promoters ,etc..want this,for the fact that it IS to advertise and it IS simple to read etc...BUT this music is NOT for that crowd,it's challenging music,its challenging design( no matter if you belive that or not) and it DOES the job advertising to IT's intended crowd. Not everything is for everybody and this includes art,music and design,thats what makes it great,thats what makes opinions,Thats what makes this another Kleinsmith classic!!
The argument is moot. It can't be solved. A design solution is subjective.
I never defended 'fine arts' versus 'commercial arts' I am a dyed-in-the-wool-apron-wearing hot-metal-pouring-lunch-pail-carrying commercial artist. AND not a fine artist. But there IS room for self-expression in design. There just is.
I don't care for the 'make the logo' bigger talk or the 'it's a balance between marketing and ....' that's hooey. You're smart, I'm moderately intelligent, most folks are bright. They watch seinfeld and they get it. They watch the simpsons and they laugh. These are show laden with obscure references and inside references. Weird pop culture snippits. We get it we're smart.
Taste is subjective. The only difference between the sky cries mary and rage poster is.......TASTE. one is subtle one isn't (three guesses) I argue that the type is no more pronounced in the emek poster - The so-called-better example. Which btw i'm fine with - C'mon folks optical technology is improving - free up the white space. Lower your point sizes...
look fillarts :) i'm a dumbass. if i were in a koZik poster i'd be the one with soup pot on his head and the overalls with his tongue hanging out...
:) i kept getting it wrong, D'oh! Z not s...Z not s...
It really does come down to what the eye beholds.
Rabbits with axes - is a generic 'kosik' 'coop' reference. I'm not a big fan.
Post for me an example of a poster that succeeds where you feel this one doesn't.
It influences every 'ham and egger' who digs that look / style / vibe.
Getting it is what it's all about. If you 'get it' you go to the show. If you don't you're either intrigued to go or it turns you off and you watch shrek. Again.
No ad/poster/commercial art endevor should attempt to convince every set of eyes. It ends up a tourism or hospitality ad. Which for those of you not in the Orlando area are always bad.
It should be targeted.
See, when we're talking about 'art' I LOVE old, worn, tattered. It's what makes me me and you you. And them them.
But I like that it's a discussion.
Point taken: we agree to disagree. I think this tpe of work DOES take itself too seriously. Your explanation of it's aesthetic value (because of its 'discardance') is, to me, proof of such.You mentioned that if one 'got' the reference, they 'get' the band. I find this very much the opposite in these types of posters. For instance, this one pictured above: what is there to 'get' as far as a reference goes? How does the image influence ANYONE to want to see this show? To know what the band is all about? Dont get me wrong. I dont believe that a poster for a gig has to include all that connotation either, but dont go there if you dont want to REALLY go there.
I will take at face-value your reasons for loving this style. Its your opinion and Id be stupid to call it 'wrong'. It just doesnt wash with my way of thinking, thats all. I personally dont find 'beauty' in rusted stuff. That's usually when I junk it for a new one :)
Bunny rabbits with axes? Whats that?
i hear ya. I don't 'get' rabbits with axes, crunched type and photoshop filters.
So the basic tenant we'll agree to is - we'll agree to disagree. Also - I am not Jeff or Art but i'll do my best to try to explain it from my perspective.
So, with that said. More NEVER meant better (and i know clients and laymen believe that - I teach design to college students. They LOVE to cram tons of crap on to a page.) and if you think the ArtC vibe takes itself too seriously - i think it's the opposite. Reuse of good old obscure art is a tribute to it's discarded nature. it's original discarding and it's reuse in this way is a testament too it's ephemeral nature -. it's too dumb to be serious. For me finding that old drawing is like a diamond in the rough and the idea of using art whose meaning originally was completely different. BUT - you were able to re-synthesize it- I love that. If you GET Jeff's reference - you GET the band. You're REWARDED. That is my goal as a designer. To me the Art/Jeff/CSA thing is beautiful. The way old rusty things are beautiful. The way faxes that get effed up are. The way type gets grittier the more you zerox it. It was never about "heavy art refs and terms" for me.
It's one aesthetic i like. You'll see (when ever i post my stuff) how much i dig it. Bu you'll also see WPA influences as well as blue note, streamline, minimalism, etc...
If you SAY so. Im with Max Flouride: the whole Chantry/ Kleinsmith...I dont know..'look'...I just dont get it. Its very basic clip art style stuff. Throw all the heavy art refs and terms at me that you want...I think a poster should, first and foremost, look cool. And Chantry style stuff just doesnt, to me. Its boring. It almost takes itself TOO artsy-fartsy seriously. I dont ignore the work these guys have done. I give them their props and respect for that. But its just so boring, from a laymans point of view.