Brendan Jordan :

Oh, by the way, I'm clearly not breathing any life in to the NYC poster scene, as I've barely cracked it. Unfortunately I've been relegated to the suburban desert wasteland that is Long Island - not by any official decree, but by my mere laziness. I suck.

2004-07-20 20:17:41

Casey Burns :

there's also the fact that this website is a poster archive. this is a poster. anyway, i'm really tired. ahh, the world of posters. have fun with it. get the word out. get people to see those underexposed bands.

2004-07-20 20:09:18

Brendan Jordan :

"Hell yeah I ripped it off. Right out of the AIGA book it was published in. Call it weak if you want, but finding the time to design a gig poster from scratch between being a full-time graphic designer and gigging in two bands is tough. " Then why post it up here? No one's impressed with a rip-off. If one of your jobs is a graphic designer, you should be able to come up with something a little more original. "I'll agree that the NYC poster scene is weak cause I am the only one bringing life into the poster art of the local rock scene. " What life? I've seen some other NYers stuff on here that absolutely blows you away, but I've also seen too many people do shitty half-thought through posters done for shows that deserve better.

2004-07-20 20:01:18

RichieGoodtimes :

If anybody rips me off I'll fucking murder them! I'm listening to Venom. It's really good.

2004-07-20 19:51:47

MaximumFluoride :

I'm just saying that you can't have it both ways. If you borrow expect to get borrowed from. It is all varying degrees of justification. Like, it is a little wrong to steal others designs and illos because you heavily change them and take from obscure sources. It is MORE wrong if you still from your peers and change it very little. At least that is how it seems to shake out. In my mind a little wrong and lot wrong are both still wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Now that said. I can live with it if the person stealing/ borrowing doesn't bitch when it happens to them. Thats all. And to clarify, I think it is wrong to take another persons designs and layouts same as i feel it is wrong to take somebodys illos and photos. Unless you are cool with getting jacked yourself.

2004-07-20 19:28:05

RichieGoodtimes :

I rarely find a ton of comments to be a good sign.

2004-07-20 19:25:55

kolfacekilla :

mike, i hear where you're coming from but i also think (and if i'm wrong lemme know) that you're coming at it from an illustrators point of view. some designers probably feel the same protective ownership way about their designs that an illustrator feels about their work. right or wrong, that's how i think they see it. so when someone lifts heavily from their design and just drops it on something else, regardless of the imagery it uses, they consider it theft of design, idea theft. such as this poster. changing names, thats it. looks identical to the original poster. that's where i think they're coming from, i know you think its a grey area, and it may be, but stealing design is akin to stealing illustrations in certain circles. secret circles. freemasons even. just my thoughts. i also think its funny when someone thinks the more comments on a poster the better it is. they don't realize these are just another offshoot of the forums. right on, you know i love ya, off to the airport to pick up my wife and baby girl :D -tyler

2004-07-20 19:16:59

RichieGoodtimes :

Robin. You're fired.

2004-07-20 18:42:13

sbellina :

Thanks for the clarification. I've used that technique before. Glad you're seeing these posts... sorry for ripping work.

2004-07-20 18:20:32

MaximumFluoride :

Curt Eichelburger made stencil art out of somebody elses artwork and people lost thier minds. I sure hope eople don't get mad at Modern Dog for doing essentialy the same thing. Oh wait... context change. Forgot about that other unwritten rule. My bad.

2004-07-20 18:17:23

RobynneRaye :

Scott: Just to clarify regarding your comment regarding the 'stripper clip art'. Vito did a high contrast illustration from a photo in an old porn mag, and then made a stencil out of it.

2004-07-20 18:09:57

RichieGoodtimes :

Of course. I'm the New AD.

2004-07-20 18:05:52

sbellina :

are you getting benefits?

2004-07-20 18:05:17

RichieGoodtimes :

I just got hired by Modern Dog just ten minutes ago. I'm not laughing.

2004-07-20 18:03:14

sbellina :

Modern Dog should use this poster next time they present their work at another design conference. Would be funny as hell.

2004-07-20 18:02:09

sbellina :

agreed... like I said. Didn't know this site was about that... guess I learned pretty quickly. haha. Still, it's a shame that the one poster I can't clain as an original idea has 108 comments. Funny shit.

2004-07-20 17:58:31

Smoove B :

I can respect that. And I'm speaking as a non-poster artist. If I saw this somewhere in NYC, I'd think yeah, thats a pretty fresh take over all the shitty B&W handbiils all over cause I wouldn't know where parts of it came from. But on the artists behalf, I think they know better and take it deeper, thats what all the hubbub is about.

2004-07-20 17:56:27

sbellina :

...my initial reaction to the scandalous poster critique. Gave it some days... see my wrong-doing.

2004-07-20 17:53:42

Smoove B :

I'm referring to your original, "I stole it, so what" comment, not money.

2004-07-20 17:51:46

sbellina :

I got a MAILER-DAEMON notice, Richie. your email is broke.

2004-07-20 17:51:12

sbellina :

My shit gets ripped off all the time.. the only time I care is when they made more $$$ with it than I did. In this case, there was no $$$ involved and I would never dare to rip something and sell it.

2004-07-20 17:49:55

sbellina :

where does it say I am 'the only one posting handbills'? I am talking about the artwork on those handbills, genious. i don't think ripping artwork is breathing life in to a scene. design-period is breathing life into the scene. Don't you get it???? Flyers, with some color... nice typography.. kick-ass imagery whether it's stolen or not. I gotta disagree with your comment, Smoove B.

2004-07-20 17:48:00

kolfacekilla :

they were a bit negligent, i agree. having your stuff ripped off does suck though, i'm sure you can sympathise.

2004-07-20 17:47:05

Smoove B :

oh can I add that, most of these artists do this for a living, so I'm sure its reasonable that it gets em riled up

2004-07-20 17:45:51

sbellina :

I just forwarded the email to you, Richie.

2004-07-20 17:44:39

Smoove B :

This may be redundant but even if you were the only one posting handbills on telephone poles in NYC (I've lived there and I'll bet a lot that you're not the only one) how exactly do you figure ripping off artwork is breathing life into any local scene. Do it for fun, promote your band, but don't flaunt it around as your own with that who cares attitude.

2004-07-20 17:43:53

sbellina :

As far as being 'upset' goes... My design ethics is something I've always take pretty seriously, whether you choose to believe that or not. When that comes into question, I can't help but try to defend my actions, even if I agree that they were a bit negligent.

2004-07-20 17:43:06

RichieGoodtimes :

I quoted what you wrote exactly. I'm just sayin. Robin Raye called and asked me to take her out this weekend but I can't cause I've already got plans.

2004-07-20 17:38:57

kolfacekilla :

its funny that your upset at being criticized.

2004-07-20 17:37:45

sbellina :

however, the bigger crime was posting it on this site. "If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?"

2004-07-20 17:35:35

sbellina :

point noted... and agreed.

2004-07-20 17:32:53

MaximumFluoride :

Your crime Mr. SBellina, was that you stole from your peer. Steal from sources people can't trace. Then you should be just fine. Steal away..or should I say... Re-contexualize away!! That is the unwritten rule.

2004-07-20 17:31:19

sbellina :

Exactly Dickie-Goodtimes, 'local rock scene' what scene are you talking about?

2004-07-20 17:27:53

RichieGoodtimes :

You did too Balerina, and I cut and paste "I'll agree that the NYC poster scene is weak cause I am the only one bringing life into the poster art of the local rock scene. "

2004-07-20 17:20:02

steve w :

just shut it.

2004-07-20 17:16:36

sbellina :

I was never my intention to claim this poster as my own. I slapped it together 1 week before the show and it was only used as a handbill, to be passed around to punk kids hangin' out on the streets of New York's Lower East Side. During the day, I work at a branding firm developing corporate identities, advertising, and marketing design for professional sports teams... doing posters is a side gig that I only do to promote bands that I am involved with. It's something I do for fun. Napalm Stars was a glam-punk band that played sexy rock n roll in the tradition of the New York Dolls, The Stooges, The Clash, and the Sex Pistols. We had a show last year at Pianos and I remebered seeing the 'stripper clip art' on a Modern Dog poster for the Flaming Lips. I thought it would be hilarious to incorporate into something for Napalm Stars because she has stars used as 'pasties'. Is my solution original? No. And I don't really care about that aspect of it. The solution is, however, appropriate and the image has more relavence to band like Napalm Stars than it does for Flaming Lips at Moe's Cafe, but that's just an opinion. I get imagery for my posters from all sorts of resources... old porn mags, photos I collect, images of the web, and in this case.. right off another band poster. If I would have known this image would have gotten back to the people that created it, I would have been more careful in publishing it to a site like this... then again, I wouldn't have gotten an email from one of my 'design idols', whether embarrassing or not... it made my day. I didn't realize how 'involved' this web site was. Somebody showed it to me last week and I just posted all my shit up at once. Never occurred to me that people would find this handbill I ripped off so offensive that they would find reason to resort to righteous hypo-criticism. I never made a comment of 'breathing life into the art community of New York'. Have any of you seen the design work promoting of the local New York bands? I'm not talking about that hipster main street stuff either like the strokes and the yeah yeah yeahs... I'm talking about the beating the pavement with a stack of handbills posting shit up at 3am type of bands. Bands none of you have ever heard of, and will probably never hear of. It sucks. These posters revive life into that scene. The only other artist I am aware of taking part in that scene is Joe Simko. So sorry to have offended you, but shit-storms are most fun when you create them yourself.

2004-07-20 17:15:11

Grzeca :

"This guy is weak and a cock. " Peveto rules.

2004-07-16 20:40:56

bdix :

Well, if it makes you feel any better Richie, the Iron Chef emailed me and said, "nice burger. many warm regards".

2004-07-16 16:27:16

RichieGoodtimes :

Last time I had McBobby's I got food poisoning.

2004-07-16 16:22:41

bdix :

I don't have time to cook tonight, so I'll just go through the drive through on my way home and tell my dinner guests I made McBobbys. Super sized 'n shit.

2004-07-16 16:15:11

Papercuts :

Jagged robot is my favorite character.

2004-07-16 15:51:38

DWITT :

hey man, this IS reality. Pass the popcorn.

2004-07-16 15:45:47

Papercuts :

I wish Gigposters was a reality show.

2004-07-16 15:45:05

shane m :

work more, talk less.

2004-07-16 15:42:08

shane m :

you should it has been six hours!

2004-07-16 15:40:23

sbellina :

I better get back to my hack-ass job. enjoy the rest of your day.

2004-07-16 15:39:46

RichieGoodtimes :

You band though? You guys suck right?

2004-07-16 15:39:16

sbellina :

her email prompted me to view this here debate it's generated

2004-07-16 15:36:50

stinkbait :

your wrong about the Clash. Elvis's has a picture of Elvis not a picture of The Clash smashing a guitar. They goofed on the layout of Elvis's album they didn't LIFT it completely, flip it and change the colour and type.

2004-07-16 15:36:48

RichieGoodtimes :

I just got an email from Saul Bass. Herbert Bayer was in the CCs. He said you're full of shit. Oh...Bayer just responded...He's laughing at you too.

2004-07-16 15:35:55

RichieGoodtimes :

No you didn't.

2004-07-16 15:31:59

sbellina :

I think I'll send them a big print of it personally signed.

2004-07-16 15:31:34

sbellina :

perhaps I will. The others, while some of them may use 'salvaged' imagery... remain original concepts. I just got an email from Robynne Raye of Modern Dog, simply stating "nice poster. many warm regards".

2004-07-16 15:30:47

dennyschmickle :

Where can I buy one of these?

2004-07-16 15:29:29

xian :

Thrifty Nickel! -double word score!

2004-07-16 15:22:27

kolfacekilla :

hey man you can always email clay, the guy who runs this site, and ask him to remove it. it basically calls into question every poster you've done. like, 'where'd he rip this one off from.'

2004-07-16 15:21:09

DWITT :

whatever I want to say, Richie says it better. Thank you, Richie.

2004-07-16 15:20:41

jasoncross :

it was soo nothing you went through the effort to post it. hack shut up and get back to work at the thrifty nickle

2004-07-16 15:19:25

RichieGoodtimes :

Hey! Hey! You're band sucks.

2004-07-16 15:19:08

sbellina :

wow... what a fuckin' controversy. Have you people ever seen the cover of"London Calling" by the Clash? That album and it's cover is considered one of the greatest in rock, yet it remains a total rip-off of an Elvis Presley record. I'll agree with the plagiarism comment. I see the difference between retro-fitting a nifty pin-up stripper into an original design and then someone else taking that same image from the original design and utilizing it in the same fashion. It's happened to me as well, so question my talent and integrity all you want. It was just one shitty little flyer for a show nobody went to at midnight on a Monday night. Sorry not stopping to consider the ethical rationale for my actions. -s

2004-07-16 15:18:16

RichieGoodtimes :

BRENDAN JORDAN!

2004-07-16 15:18:11

jasoncross :

if that is the case then its on life support

2004-07-16 15:17:24

DWITT :

ya know, this guy IS keeping the NY poster scene vital and alive.

2004-07-16 15:16:35

jasoncross :

backed against a wall I can bust out a blue blob in 30 seconds :)

2004-07-16 15:15:42

RichieGoodtimes :

It's an expression.

2004-07-16 15:15:02

DWITT :

Eat shit?

2004-07-16 15:14:17

RichieGoodtimes :

It probably took longer to rip it and filterize it than to think of something new. Hey dude. From me to you. EAT SHIT.

2004-07-16 15:13:47

xian :

Get 'em Jason! :D

2004-07-16 15:13:38

DWITT :

unused drawings?

2004-07-16 15:12:52

Casey Burns :

by "stock art," i think we're both referring to extra unused drawings (of our own) we could have laying around.

2004-07-16 15:12:22

jasoncross :

wait. you say yourt a FULL TIME graphic designer and you dont know how to pull an idea out of your ass and make something original within an hour...you must really suck as a full time designer...otehrwise you would make your own work...hack.

2004-07-16 15:11:32

Casey Burns :

well, that may be your point, but it's not what you said. i agree, that i would not post that kind of flyer here. but NOT doing a flyer at all because you don't have time to make it look pretty is just not the right answer. that's what i was responding to.

2004-07-16 15:11:19

bdix :

Even if you only have "x" amount of time, any "designer" worth their weight should be able to knock out a better than decent design just using text.

2004-07-16 15:11:02

DWITT :

stock art?

2004-07-16 15:10:26

Casey Burns :

stock art is great, if you can spare it. at certain points in time, i would be designing over twelve flyers a day. stock runs pretty thin at that point. and i can draw really fast, too.

2004-07-16 15:09:24

extrastout :

That isn't even the point. The original point was: Why rip off someones design for a flyer on the fly and then submit to GP as your own?

2004-07-16 15:09:09

extrastout :

I recommend keeping some stock art on hand for such occasions. I have folders of unused designs and illos and other shit that just needs some dildo band's name slapped on it and some dates. Maybe I'm the only who does this.

2004-07-16 15:07:09

bdix :

deja vu.

2004-07-16 15:05:54

Brent Oliver :

testify... this coming from a club promoter who happens to design posters.

2004-07-16 15:05:29

Casey Burns :

extrastout, i'm saying there have been countless times over the years where i have been called upon to design and have photocopies of a new flyer within 45 minutes, because a big show was just confirmed, and the crowd at the club on that particular night would be the target audience for the newly booked show, as well. there isn't time to assess a goddamned thing. you make the flyers as fast as you can, staple them on the walls of the club when you get back from kinko's on your bike at midnight, and give handbills to the crowd as they leave after the last band finishes. no glitzy idealistic designer fantasies. just getting legible show info into potential customers' hands at an opportune moment. that's why "not doing the flyer" is bullshit.

2004-07-16 15:02:39

extrastout :

How is what I said bullshit? If you don't have time to take on a responsiblility, then you should reasses your schedule and priorities or pass the buck to someone else, not do things halfassed.

2004-07-16 14:56:10

stinkbait :

Ed Knows! Get 'em Gossage!

2004-07-16 14:56:06

EdGossage :

I really feel that This guy is weak and a cock. :evil:

2004-07-16 14:54:11

DWITT :

what casey said, not what frank said.

2004-07-16 14:53:16

bdix :

But how do you really feel Eddie? :P

2004-07-16 14:53:08

DWITT :

I second that!!

2004-07-16 14:52:54

kozik :

going to shows is gay.

2004-07-16 14:52:45

Casey Burns :

ed wins. funniest post yet.

2004-07-16 14:52:04

EdGossage :

I didnt have time to read all of the comments on this poster, but i feel like i need to comment on it. so these are MY thoughts. What the fuck is wrong with everyone thinking "not having enough time" is an excuse to completely lift something like this and call it their own? That time thing is a bullshit excuse. I have THREE full time jobs and I still come up with stuff without having to resort to ripping off other poster artists. Two of my full time jobs are serious ones too that take way more time than playing in two bands. I'm also getting tired of all you shitheads getting all ballsy when you get called out. "hell yeah i ripped it. so what?" So you Suck that's what. Try some humiliation instead of trying to pretend to be so tough. You're just a half ass designer that can't come up with your own ideas.

2004-07-16 14:50:27

Casey Burns :

i'm calling bullshit on extrastout. the #1 priority is for a club to get the info out in front of the people. if it takes shitty flyers to do it, so be it. try working in a rock club for eight years, then you will understand what i mean.

2004-07-16 14:49:09

extrastout :

The way I see it, if you don't have enough time to design a poster, DON"T FUCKING DO IT. :!:

2004-07-16 14:47:05

xian :

I'd respect the "piece of shit" poster a helluva lot more. At least it's a true, original thing. Producing a shitty poster takes a lot more effort, guts and humility than simply identifying something good and stealing it. From a design annual, no less.....

2004-07-16 14:45:04

Casey Burns :

I've shot out some enormous pieces of shit for posters to meet a deadline, too. thousands of them. and i have ripped off artists and photographers, but i'm sure as hell not about to post them here with my name on them. i was young once, too. sniff.

2004-07-16 14:44:14

Brent Oliver :

Having not enough time to design a poster is understandable - in fact, deadlines happen all the time. But plagiarizing is a completely different topic all together. I've shot out some enormous pieces of shit for posters to meet a deadline - but I didn't rip them off from anyone...

2004-07-16 14:33:06

stinkbait :

This guy is weak and a cock. :evil:

2004-07-16 14:31:18

bdix :

but how do you [i]really[/i] feel Geoff? :P

2004-07-16 14:28:47

stinkbait :

What the fuck is wrong with everyone thinking "not having enough time" is an excuse to completely lift something like this and call it their own? That time thing is a bullshit excuse. I have THREE full time jobs and I still come up with stuff without having to resort to ripping off other poster artists. Two of my full time jobs are serious ones too that take way more time than playing in two bands. I'm also getting tired of all you shitheads getting all ballsy when you get called out. "hell yeah i ripped it. so what?" So you Suck that's what. Try some humiliation instead of trying to pretend to be so tough. You're just a half ass designer that can't come up with your own ideas.

2004-07-16 14:27:07

steve w :

Hey dude, send me a CD cuz I have to "write" a song in two days and I don't have time. FFFFFFFFFFFFFF....

2004-07-16 14:06:16

danieldanger :

"..i mean, its the british way!" -sam the eagle.

2004-07-16 13:53:00

Jermaine :

sbellina said: 'I'll agree that the NYC poster scene is weak cause I am the only one bringing life into the poster art of the local rock scene. ' SBellina, you ever seen Gary Gillmore's work? Been doing amazing posters in NYC for around 10 years. VERY punk. VERY rock. You should check him out.

2004-07-16 13:52:06

Jermaine :

'It's the American way!' It really is. Stealing, I mean.

2004-07-16 13:50:08

xian :

It's the American way!

2004-07-16 13:48:31

Grzeca :

man, I dont have time to design/illustrate my posters either-Since I work 70 hours a week painting houses..so I secretly have contracted out all of my dog heads and "hand drawn" posters to a small province in China

2004-07-16 13:47:27

xian :

Awesome J! I fully plan to be flattered in the sincere-est way...

2004-07-16 13:40:41

rockologist :

you'll see christian, i'm totally inspiring this idea from one of your posters right now...

2004-07-16 13:39:18

xian :

For sure! What a bulletproof excuse. It's OK to plagiarize if you're busy. I never realized "inspiration" was the same thing as "photocopy fodder."

2004-07-16 13:34:17

kolfacekilla :

you don't understand, he's a full time graphic designer. he does it FULL TIME! he doesn't have time to make posters.

2004-07-16 13:30:03

rockologist :

that dude totally told y'all. he set shit straight. HELL YEAH, HE DID.

2004-07-16 13:25:24

RichieGoodtimes :

New York City is Brendan Jordans. Everyone knws that.

2004-07-16 12:44:03

Casey Burns :

i gotta say that i really don't have a problem with folks lifting things for flyers that are hung around town. what baffles me is when someone does this, but then posts it on a site like this, claiming credit for it.

2004-07-16 12:42:36

extrastout :

The only one breathing life into the art community in New York City? That's a pretty hefty claim.

2004-07-16 12:40:39

steve w :

sucky Mc Sucksuck

2004-07-16 12:40:16

RichieGoodtimes :

I wonder what part of NYC the rock this dude lives under is in.

2004-07-16 12:39:28

bdix :

"I'll agree that the NYC poster scene is weak cause I am the only one bringing life into the poster art of the local rock scene." :o

2004-07-16 12:38:36

Tenebrini :

Imitation and theft are 2 different things.

2004-07-16 12:35:40

extrastout :

heh heh

2004-07-16 12:35:35

RichieGoodtimes :

I bet your bands suck.

2004-07-16 12:33:05

sbellina :

Hell yeah I ripped it off. Right out of the AIGA book it was published in. Call it weak if you want, but finding the time to design a gig poster from scratch between being a full-time graphic designer and gigging in two bands is tough. I'll agree that the NYC poster scene is weak cause I am the only one bringing life into the poster art of the local rock scene. This poster was done 1 week prior to the show. About 10 punk kids attended the show... it was a free show. Bitch all you want, but imitation is the best form of flattery. Modern Dog was a big influence on my design education. Kudos to Vito for creating such a kick-ass poster. Thanks for the inspiration. Now go find something better to do with your time, like going to the actual gigs.

2004-07-16 12:30:26

electrofork :

where did theoriginal image come from? is it a movie star?

2004-07-13 16:48:48

seripop :

come on guys everybody steals! what about clip art? punk rock! *grunts*

2004-07-13 16:40:29

Coby Schultz :

Very weak. One of my best friends designed this poster, the talented Mr. Vito Costarella, and he'd be none too happy to see this lame rip off. Goose egg for originality.

2004-07-13 16:05:13

Brendan Jordan :

That IS weak! NYC poster scene can be a let down. :-?

2004-07-07 09:12:59

stinkbait :

This is weak. I have this exact same image on a Flaming Lips/Archers Of Loaf show that was at Moe in Seattle. BLT printed it. All those circles behind her used to say Moe. I'll post it so you can see. all that is changed is the colour and type. Lame ass...

2004-07-07 09:10:47

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