i don't think jermaine is a jerk at all. i think he's a great person and a sincere person. he just operates by a different set of rules than i do. just like kozik does. just like richie does. just like you do.
so, don't go judging him by what i've written. because there is no judgment call on my end at all. this is just a rundown on how things went according to my memory. ok? any judgments you guys make here are lame and unnecessary. it's just what is. completely benign.
of the posters printed on top of other posters? i have no idea. i don't do 'editions". i do posters, not 'art prints'. i don't keep track of how many were printed. they just ads. i draw off memory as best i can, but since i didn't handle the printing end of this project, i don't know how things turned out.
now, jermaine, he's into this stuff as "art" (aka- commerce), so he keeps track of editions and numbers and signing and stuff like that. you might ask him.
ya know, as i try to remember this process, i realize i put a zillion of my own posters (originally it was just my and jermaine's posters) into the pile. then i started just clearing out my flatfiles. i tossed in some really rare and valuable things from my collection - lotsa non-gigposter posters as well as some gigposter stuff. i also tossed in several avalon/fillmore posters. the idea was that we actually print on top of really expensive rare shit. i thought THAT was funny.
somehow, none of those rare posters got printed (on). then i realized that jermaine is a big poster collector. stupid plan.
so, then why did you lead me to believe you were considering it?
i knew you wouldn't/couldn't. i just felt bad that you thought i was dissing your work, like i thought it wasn't any good. see? that is what i didn't like about the way the thing turned out. i wanted to make everrybody feel like their work was INCLUDED in a masterpiece! but, it was done so poorly that everybody felt hurt instead.
i still have most of those posters you gave me. in fact, i only contributed the ones that were duplicated (you sent me batches at least twice.) i think your guys' work is brilliant and some of the best most amazing poster work i've encountered in years. i really had no intention of hurting your feelings. you've never been anything but sweet to me. yannick, too.
so, my apologies.
but, i gotta go.
art- even 5 years down the road , having been screwed by corrporate clients for tons of $$ , we've never sued anyone or seriously considered it.
if any talk of suing came from me , it was in jest , cueing of of kozik's comments.
with the amount of money we were making in 03 , sueing anyone for ANYTHING would have truly been impossible.
yeah , we were hurt and upset that we gave our prints to the person who inspired us to start making posters in the first place and then we see 'em covered with the radiohead logo going for $$$ on expressobeans . we were bummed .
no lawyers were contacted . no cease and desists were sent out.
anyway , neither of us care at all anymore.
with the amount of posters we now own 5 years down the road , they DO start taking up storage space and become kinda redundant. i think printing over em is a good way of clearing up clutter.
yes you did. i had to sweet talk you out of it. i always thought it was so funny that of all the people we printed over, you and frank were the ones who pitched the biggest fit. you two came from such extremely different viewpoints. but you both consider yourselves artists inside. that's what hurt you two so much. that your "art" would be desicrated.
sorry, but you did talk about suing me with me.
actually, i've probably done more collab than any other artist on this sight. all my career i've helped guys out and even launched great careers with collaboration. but it always focusses on them, the illustrator (or photographer or artist or whatever). i'm a designer. i support the ideas presented and when you work with an illustrator, they bring idea in their image. i can't change that. so, i make their work look great. like i said, i boosted many a career over the years. i doubt many of them actually realize it. they would get all this praise for the great poster "they" did and then get all the future work. they'd basically go on aping what i did with their image in our collab and that would be that. they often don't even see what i did for them. many times repeatedly.
(jermaine was already well established before we collaborated and it didn't work that way at all. i'm not including present company in that story.)
i worked as an art director for years. i know all about working with people - especially crazy artists and no money - to get great results. it's what i do. now i primarily work with found crap and make that look great the same way i make illustration look great. it's what i do.
i just did a coloring book project that made the illustrator look like a genius. it turned out magnificent. how much was me and how much was him, you'll never know. but he'll promote the shit out of it to get more work. me, i'll probably never show it to anybody again. c'mon, show a coloring book to a potential client? right. but, n illustrator showing a coloring book? looks really cool!
yeah, it was a mess. i think the big "x" (which was the only solution i could come up with fast to cover the stuff underneath and still carry the bear image we had) was a lousy choice. it said "cancellation" or "censorship". that was not my intent.
then jermaine's cute little label "casualties" (people still sell them on ebay under that name for big dollars) sorta cemented the icing on the cake. it all became a dis on all the posters underneath. and THAT would naturally piss everyone off. when they got pissed i began to run with it, try to turn it all into a good natured joke, but it horrified me at the time. getting threatened by lawsuits was never the result i intended at all. nobody threatened jermaine, just me.
basically, i was the bad cop again, so i got saddled with all of the blame and ill feelings. jermaine came off as the sensitive nice guy even though his decisons were the ones that dragged into the territory that caused problems. my original idea in my mind's eye would have been cool and not offending to anyone.
oh well. collaborations are always more than just working on an image together. the intent and execution and promotion is also part of it and you need to be on top of all of it. or you become a patsy. a scapegoat. i'm good at that role because i'm such a sourpuss.
also, the reason we printed on all of the found posters upsidedown was because they all were too easy to read the original type rightsideup and would confuse people. it was a last minute decision on the phone to the printer and jermaine down there in texas. not a very good decision, either. i sorta hated the way they turned out.
my original idea in my head was very different - at least for the printing on top of found posters. i may try it someday, but it seems like the whole idea was pretty well exhausted by jermaine's sales campaign, gp and the people who got so angry. i'll probably never do it again. i have lots of ideas like that sitting around that i'll never use. i don't do much work anymore, so i have these ideas just piling up like cordwood. that's how it works.
it was a collaboration. jermaine did an illus and he gave it to me. i made it into a chantry poster like it was clipart.
this version was my original design. then we started talking shit and i proposed we print on top of old poster rejects from our own work - you know, the stuff you throw in a pile because it's off somehow, but it' too good to toss? then i suggested we throw in other stuff i had sitting around that i didn't want any more. before you knew it we were tossing collectible rarities into the pile to be all bold and stuff.
then i had to figure out to slap this on top of other posters after the fact. i finally came up with a big "x" with this bear&type in the middle of it. it really didn't work very well. also, everybody elses's poster rtype (usually reading across the top) was too visible. i just wanted to trim everything down to a smaller standard size, but jermaine thought it owuld be funnier if we left everything the original full size, even thought hey varied so much. he always has his eyes on the botton line and he knew they'd sell better that way. so, i relented on that.
all in all, i don't think i should have collaborated on this idea and should have done it like i originally conceived it years ago. it was an idea i'd been holding onto for years. it's shame it imploded so badly. overall i consider it a failed project, even though it was a crashing success by most people's standards (aka - someone made money.) i never sold any.
I don't know aside from all of that, the who made money, who was offended, whatever... the idea itself was spot on... at least what I took from it, and I could be entirely wrong was, are the images still owned by the original artist after they've been made into a poster and sold? Or is it like any other object one buys and is solely the purchaser's from the point.
Like it I paint over an antique coke sign, is it illegal?
I dunno... my brain is foggy, maybe I'm not getting my point across.
The whole poster under the image things my guess is an expressobeans thing.
I still have mine, I reckon someday it'll be in some obscure advertising museum with the rest of this stuff.
nobody really got it. everybody misunderstood the point of it. everybody thought i was cutting everybody else's work down. that wasn't the intent at all. somehow, the marketing jermaine did sorta ran with that impression and people started trying to buy the posters with the most famous "found poster" underneath. both kozik and seripop (the two extremes, of course) considered suing me. we had to destroy or give back all of kozik's posters we printed on top of. it got real stupid real fast. so, i view it all as a failure, a big misunderstanding.
also, jermaine gave it that silly name - what was it? cancellations? misprints? something cute. but, my idea to print on top of other found posters was sorta cool. jermaine managed to make some bank on it, though. so, it was worthwhile.
i still like this version, though. the others i just keep at the bottom of a drawer and cringe at once on a while.
nah, this was just a little flyer thing i put together that we both liked enough to give to the client. it's not the actual poster.
by the way, jermaine drew the bear.
don't hold yer breathe kids. this "mysterious mindblowing poster" thing will just disappoint you.
who started that bullshit anyway?