yes, i called brian that in a pm. but that was my WHOlE pm - in response to a message from him calling me a lotta crap, too.
so, i feel it was a justifiable response to his verbal assault in his pm. i also think he may be a bit, well, EMOTIONAL at the moment. i dunno. i wish he'd take my advice and calm down.
look, i respect tibor. i respect alex. i respect victore. i respect sagmeister. but i know how this stuff works and i also happen to be friends with every one of these people. some of them i've known for decades.
but, someehow, you've taken everything i've said as some sort of personal insult. and now you are thretening me (with what, i don't know).
so, i suggest you back down, ok?
think it over for a day, and pm me tomorrow. and this time don't call me names, OK?
i'm not sure art deserves the sympathy you seem to be offering... he dishes it out worse than he can take it.
i hope you're not getting the impression that i'm hostile or trying to tear him a new one... totally not the case! the guy is one of my design heroes and i totally respect his breadth of knowlege and experience. it's why i bought his book...
if you continue to try and paint a false portrait of me in this forum i'll have no choice but to air your dirty mouth in public. again, this isn't the place... have some respect for the artist who submitted this poster. for a dude who complains about kozik always trying to bait him into fights, you sure are sticking your little worm out pretty far.
i'm not ranting. i'm just pointing out how this stuff works. what i said is not wrong, you just have misinterpereted what i'm saying to be some sort of cut. it's not. it's a simple statement of the facts as i know them.
oh, good for you. you should read more books. read my book too, and franks, and everybody else's. just reading tibor's book over and over is not getting the whole story.
art: tibor credited isley as designer on all that stuff. i don't think he ever tried to take credit for anything other than being the head of a great studio (which he assembled). your rantings seem moot. i've read his book (tibor) a few times and it's made very clear who did what...
anyway, he was one of the most original design thinkers EVER, in my opinion. god love 'im.
this discussion belongs somewhere else, tho'.
AGAIN: nice poster here! sorry 'bout the ramblings...
that's the problem (for me) with this whole scenario - alex DID create that stuff without tibor. m&co ASSUMED authorship of his portfolio when they hired him. that work was alex's alone, not remotely involved with tibor.
but that's how a 'studio' system works. the name of the studio assumes authorship. i actually know famous 'design' studios (headed by a 'famous designer', no less) where the name on the door has never designed anything, ever. the 'name on the door' is essentially a rep. but, the rep is the famous designer.
i know design studios who sold their business and moved on or retired and even died, but they are still famous designers winning awards and getting all the work.
the studio system is basically unfair to the individual artist, but it's part of the 'journeyman' process, supposedly.
i once went to a 'cattle call' interview for a job where the guy holding the interview basically went through everybody's books all at the same time - with all of us in the room.
he went along and pull this piece out of one book, the pull another piece out of another book. then he said - 'i'll take this and put into MY book nd go get work - for MYSELF. i'll give some money if i get work.'
of course, i took my stuff and split immediately. but it was amazing to me how many people went along with it.
tibor always said 'i am not a designer'... i think he was a great 'idea man' and probably a very inspirational power to be around. would isley have created that work if he wasn't working with tibor? probably not. BTW, Spy was designed by M&Co.
I attended an Isely lecture a few years ago while still in school. Alexander was very modest and his ease at handling a crowded room was staggering. He was well aware that sooo many students probably didn't know who he was and he never seemed intent on claiming credit. After his slideshow every underclassmen in the room was like 'oh thats who did that' and 'wow i have seen that before'. I believe he is currently responsible for HOW magazine's currenty look, which the in-house team butchers on a regular basis.
i knew tibor. i hung with him a number of times and we had an occaisional correspondence. he was a great guy, a wonderful thinker, an man of action, a real monketwrencher. and he was always very kind to me. i deeply admired him. he was a GREAT huckster.
that being said, virtually all the stuff he became famous for was done by other really great designers in his employ. he ran the studio and did the front work, his impossibly great staff did the real design work.
case in point: there was a fella name of alexander isley who worked for him waaaaay early at m&co. alex was also instrumental in the design of 'spy' magazine - but i can't recall if that came before or after his stint with tibor. alex pretty much pioneered that "lotsa little info' style of editorial design that became the hallmark of the eighties. it's still powerful and influential today.
anyway, most of that early stuff m&co became famous for ( the 'paper weight', the 'architectural template', the '10/2/4' watch, etc. etc.) was alex's work. and the icky part is that it was all stuff that alex freelanced (a lot for his father's architectural firm) BEFORE he ever worked at m&co. when he joined m&co's employ, his portfolio became tibor's portfolio.
of course, tibor road it straight into design history (and the bank), whereas if alex didn't have the pitch man, all that work would have been obscure.
alex went on to become an extremely successful magazine designer, and is doing quite nicely. he's a modest man, and not demonstrative at all.
but he may be one of the most influential designers of the last quarter century.
and that's how it works in the real world.
re: james victore
I think the cover he did for critique magazine says it all... took the thoreau quote "simplify, simplify" and simply (ha!) crossed out the first 'simplify'.
his work is stripped down to the essentials and elegantly and beautifully executed. he's a huge inspiration on my process.
as for sagmeister -- i used to be in love with his wit and concepts until i educated myself on tibor kalman (sag's mentor) and found that he'd pretty much covered all of that stuff a long time ago. that said, he's still carrying the torch i suppose...
this poster is simple and beautifully executed, which i think draws the victore comparison. well done faith!
James is a genious. He was my portfolio teacher for a year and I learned more in that year than in my 3 previous years. I think his site is up now at jamesvictore.com its been up and down
his stuff is amazing
well, to answer that would a LOT of time and space.
i guess i base my opinion on comparison, history, and aesthetics. plus, there's that 'magic something' that just clicks with the very best work. it's a sense of total perfection and utter mastery. he has that in spades in my eye.
Art -what makes victore's work so mindblowing to you?
I thinks some of it is effective but I don't know about "the best in the world" statement-just wondering why you think it is so incredible. guess I'm missing something. wouldn't be the first time.
jamie and i were hanging with him last time i was in nyc. he's going through a few "life changes" right now, but his work has gotten even more 'out there'. he seems to be re-inventing his style. i guess the copycats overwhelmed him.
yeah i mean from what i know of his work, i really love it. I'm a sucker for simplcity and i think he is one of the best in the biz. Ide have to put my money on Luba Lukova though, never fails to amaze.
go find a book with james victore's work in it. it'll blow you away. he's probably the very best poster artist in the u.s. right now - maybe in the world.
nobody outside of "graphic design" knows who he is, but, man, he'll make you absolutely sick with envy when you see his stuff. every one of you will drool uncontrollable when you encounter his work.
jes' th' facks, m'am.
most of the poster work ive seen from victore has the silohetted figures with some large message knocked out.. like the disney poster, or the flys posters. Im much more familiar with Sagmeisters work than with victores. I know sagmeisters hand done type treatments are very very similar ot victores... i dunno its comparing apples to oranges almost, victores work is much more iconic where as sagmeister either goes with cramming as much as possible, or goes the better route of coming up with some amazing "undoable" concept. I do like sagmeisters work alot for its unexpected angles, but some of it is just pure crap.
have you ever seen james victore's poster work? sagmeister took it to 'new' levels all right - LOW levels.
i like stefan, but i think his work is a little too derivative (i can show you where he stole almost everything in his book) for my taste. it's sorta like paula scher - great salesman/copycat designer. you guys call me a theif and a hack, but you have no idea how bad it can get out there when you're a good salesman and privvy to the arcane history of graphic design. you can steal forever and look like a genius.
trust me on this...