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The Small Stakes  
The Ramp
Jason Munn 
2002-12-09 01:45:52
Curtains, The
Blevin Blectum

Curtains Poster - The Ramp, Berkeley - The Small Stakes

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GrushkinSend Grushkin a message :   still decorative after all these years   2011-08-30 21:42:43
PlantweedSend Plantweed a message :   Lots of LOLZ here   2009-06-19 14:44:50
erik okSend erik ok a message :   this thread should be in a GD textbook.   2008-04-09 02:49:01
Iron Canvas StudiosSend Iron Canvas Studios a message :   looks like trouble, nice simple clean design.   2008-04-08 23:45:20
largemammalSend largemammal a message :   ah, the memories....   2005-08-11 00:40:13
dennyschmickleSend dennyschmickle a message :   Yeah, I kind of thought these might come into the conversation.   2004-02-26 09:02:56
Michael ApparatusSend Michael Apparatus a message :   Again.   2004-02-26 09:00:47
piemelSend piemel a message :   Giggle... Jason has an artshow in the city coming up so I was just going through his posters on this site again... forgot all about the discussion on this poster... absolutely classic stuff and some great back & forths in the comments.
And ofcourse dave started it all..
  2003-11-05 23:47:07
maynardSend maynard a message :   Is this the biggest number of comments on one poster? 260... man...   2003-07-24 06:21:36
Brendan JordanSend Brendan Jordan a message :   Randomized argument   2003-07-24 04:22:39
RichieGoodtimesSend RichieGoodtimes a message :   Am I the only one who sees the swastika hidden on this poster?
What's that all about?
  2003-07-18 20:41:36
RichieGoodtimesSend RichieGoodtimes a message :   Jimbo's back?
I was hoping...I mean...I though you were dead and I was worried.
  2003-04-29 12:09:58
jimboSend jimbo a message :   FUCK YOU RANDOMIZER!   2003-04-29 12:05:44
jason_killingerSend jason_killinger a message :   you guys are all on crack. isn't a poster supposed to make people stop and look, and inform them about the show?
If i saw this poster, i'd stop and check it out. the colors are great, the information is clear, yeah it's geometery, but who cares.
give the guy a break.
  2002-12-11 11:27:02
philaarts.comSend a message :   bump   2002-12-11 07:08:06
JephSend Jeph a message :   Let it go people....let it go.   2002-12-10 22:10:51
JermaineSend Jermaine a message :   TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY TWO? wow
right on Jason. Do your thing. NEVER make posters for the people on this site. Please your client and yourself...
  2002-12-10 21:50:57
Cody PomeroySend Cody Pomeroy a message :   you know I don't think that we've discussed this poster enough yet..wanna spend a couple more days picking it apart?   2002-12-10 21:48:25
uncle charlieSend uncle charlie a message :   I'm with Richie, this poster is for FAGS.. A bunch of gay flowers on some brown paper.. fuck that shit.. My three year old daughter could draw this shit.. Hell its just copy/paste copy/paste.. fuck that's talented???   2002-12-10 14:02:18
jimboSend jimbo a message :   I've decided I don't like this because in no way can I connect it with delicious pie. Not even as a table cloth.   2002-12-10 13:55:35
jimboSend jimbo a message :   YO! At one point I swear it looked minty.   2002-12-10 13:48:42
philaarts.comSend a message :   ahem, your leadership was needed..
" 2002-12-09 15:15:41
good can be determined by only 1 fact
what richiegoodtimes says... "
  2002-12-10 13:47:59
RichieGoodtimesSend RichieGoodtimes a message :   Not one thing strikes me about this poster. I can't believe you retards spent like 2 days discussing this. I leave here for a while and the place gets over run by retards discussing the merits of baroque wall paper as poster art. RETARDS.
I can't stress enough how retarded some of you are.
  2002-12-10 13:44:29
DWITTSend DWITT a message :   nice....   2002-12-10 11:54:11
jimboSend jimbo a message :   If this thread gets long enough, Jason can place the poster on a book cover, copy this text, and get it into the Alabama school system.   2002-12-10 11:53:08
Bradley W. ZimmermanSend Bradley W. Zimmerman a message :   i can't believe i read the whoooooooole thread.
honestly, this is why i hang around this site. this kind of discussion, dick/clit-swinging or no, is more insightful and productive than anything tuition money covers.
  2002-12-10 11:48:12
philaarts.comSend a message :   holy shit, im glad i recognized this as something that looked similar from before... interesting topics goin on...
whats the REAL BONE OF CONTENTION here... ? why so many posts?
  2002-12-10 09:53:12
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   I agreed with you was a minor discrepency and I made a better defined comment...thats discourse.   2002-12-10 09:53:04
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk - actually, i'm not taking anything out of context, i'm trying to carefully define the context. your advice is dangerous - and it is preciselybecause i skate such a fine edge in my work that i HAVE to know this stuff. so, you may think you have sound advice, but i personally know that your advice is dangerous, i'm trying to help people, not push my ego around. ok?   2002-12-10 09:44:57
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   boy - you really know how to take something out of context art...and by that you should also follow your own rules...much of your art hugs that fine line much more than you let on,,,you seem very steamed when its others and very defensive when its your own work.   2002-12-10 09:31:39
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   the advice from the gag guidebook isn't too off, but it's not that good. there is a GREAT DEAL of information about filing and renewal and licensing and identity and trademarking and intelletual property that is not even hinted at in that paragraph you wrote.
it's a minefield, so using something as lame as a guestimated '30%' is a ticking timebomb.
sorry, it's BAD advice. don't give it out anymore.
  2002-12-10 09:28:01
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   See, I showed this and the AA poster to my girlfriend who never sees this site so does not have some need to judge it out of context of its use. She said that while they seemed similar they were obviously different...its up to the Laymen, not the cliques.   2002-12-10 09:23:20
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Youre right, 30% is not a legal number but is a general 'idea' set by past is what is more actually something you should go by...which still covers this poster safely.
A. If you use someone else's copyrighted work without their permission, you always run the risk of infringing their copyright. The test for infringement is whether an ordinary observer believes your work to be copied from the other person's work. If you change the work to such a degree that an ordinary observer will not see any copying -- such as by altering the original work and adding new designs to it, you will be safe. Keep in mind that there is no percentage test -- such as changing 25 percent or 50 percent of the original work -- that will guarantee you have changed the original work enough. Also, in some cases your copying will be obvious, but it still may not be an infringement because it is what is called a "fair use." Four factors are used to determine whether using all or part of another artist's work is a fair use: (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether or not it is for profit; (2) the character of the copyrighted work (if it is news or factual, fair use is more likely to be found, whereas using fantasy or entertaining works makes a finding of fair use less likely; (3) how much of the total work is used in the course of the use; and (4) what effect the use will have on the market for or value of the copyrighted work. If you want to avoid potential copyright infringements, you can seek written permission from the person who created the art that you are copying. You would then be a licensee with the right to create and sell airbrush images of that art. Legal Guide for the Visual Artist has a permission form. In addition, Licensing Art and Design by Caryn Leland is filled with helpful information about licensing images.
  2002-12-10 09:21:54
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i've learned a bit about copyright law, and that isn't true. there is no 30% rule. that actually stems from an old goverment policy of being able to reproduce money so long as it's 30% bigger or 30% smaller. a lot of people took that and extended it to all artwork. but there is no law supporting that at all. you'll just get yourself sued. and the last thing you want is to have to try to prove the intricasies of copyright law to a jury of fellow citizens. expensive! ouch!   2002-12-10 09:16:05
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   And, my point is this is WAY MORE than 30% difference...WAY!   2002-12-10 09:14:09
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Art -
You of all people who flat out rip 40- 60's add copy for a poster should know what I am talking about, paaahhhleeezzze.
  2002-12-10 09:13:26
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Depends on your attorney and which jury you get...but there is copyright laws tha make these points art...   2002-12-10 09:12:43
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   The very nature of Graphic Design is to repurpose and recreate and take inspiration...How many Kleinsmith, Kozik, Chantry, Russian Avant Garde, War propaganda inspired posters are on this site? And, that is not a bad an artist confidence and vision grows they become more in need to define their own aesthetic and move away from what was comfortable or pleasing in inspiration of others.   2002-12-10 09:11:23
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk - i don't know where folks get that '30% rule' from, but it's total hokum. there is no 30% rule. copyright laws are intense complex and change almost daily. it's not good advice to toss around that 30% thing because it'll get a lot of people in trouble.
think about - just how do you extimate 30%? who gets to estimate it? you? the other artist? the jury? who? how?
  2002-12-10 09:10:32
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Something being defferent in Graphic design is actually a legal issue...its called 30%. If you make something it must be atleast 30% original, they teach this in school. At one point it was even considered making a 50% change just by flipping the image...that was changed in a court of law to the 30% rule with no direct use of the copied material in a fashion that it was previously used...
Sorta like I could use a Michellin man looking guy for a donut shop, but probably not for a Tire Company unless I totally recreated him with enough difference from the original...and even then there could be an arguement for parallel marketing which is also illegal within the same market.
  2002-12-10 09:07:34
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   by making unconcostructive get what i mean...   2002-12-10 07:40:48
Cody PomeroySend Cody Pomeroy a message :   amen, the very essence of "art" is that the artist is influenced by other artists and it then shows in their art. No artist is truly unique, though they want more than anything to think that. Everybody bites off of everybody that's the way it goes. If this site didn't exist, and this poster was never seen by a person who didn't know who AA was would it fucking matter? I think not. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that shit, I pick up a little something from you guys daily. Now I gotta go work on some smoking bunny pictures, see you.   2002-12-10 07:35:20
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   good point supersucker. i agree. It doesn't help the designer by not make it unconstructive crit.   2002-12-10 07:27:57
supersuckerSend supersucker a message :   Great read. Hey to each his/her own. Just be constructive and dont shit on something without going further. That makes you look like a jealous idiot. If you have the balls to say you "hate" something, be civil enough to justify your opinion. Lest you should jump on a bandwagon.
Its a fucking concert poster. People dont look that close at posters in the general public. Did it advertise -YES. Were the dates right -Yes. The rest is fucking taste. Period.
  2002-12-10 06:57:25
lureSend lure a message :   inspiratoin is one thing. but this is waaaaaay too close to the aa poster.   2002-12-10 06:22:26
allenboeSend allenboe a message :   Not that at times I don't think Art doesn't deserve it but I think "godisold" is right with this. Yea there were some really shitty things said towards the end but in the begining Art was "not so simply" comenting more towards a style than this particular poster. This forum isn't just a place to pat each other on the back, its also a good place to talk and argue about design in general and that's where the good stuff is, so just because they are saying something you don't want to hear doesn't mean they don't bring anything meaningful to this site. I appriciate the comments made on the swiss style I don't really agree with them all but they made me think. There was some really great stuff amidst all the shit with this one today.   2002-12-09 22:32:55
godisoldSend godisold a message :   true, I should read it all. .. .sorry   2002-12-09 22:23:13
DWITTSend DWITT a message :   These are the conversations that make this site great.
And I still don't like it.
  2002-12-09 22:14:28
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   read it and you may get another postulate is too easy.   2002-12-09 22:12:50
godisoldSend godisold a message :   I really don't have time to read all these comments. . .but it seems that whenever Chantry puts in his two cents it turns into a "Art defends his work/himself" forum rather than a real discussion about the work in question   2002-12-09 22:08:18
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   yeah cody like 173 comments ago...(holy shit that is a lot of comments....)   2002-12-09 21:51:15
BradSend Brad a message :   it reminded me of this poster.
  2002-12-09 21:13:56
Cody PomeroySend Cody Pomeroy a message :   uhm..yeah this poster looks like another poster, has this already been mentioned?   2002-12-09 21:12:34
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   very cool,  plastk.   2002-12-09 20:32:25
Platinum RichSend Platinum Rich a message :   plastk, i agree.
that being said, i like this poster. i'm out.
  2002-12-09 19:55:56
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   rich -
I would argue while similar there are many detailed unique elements as I have already mentioned previously. I totally respect your take, but would personally liken these to arabic mosaic styles that are repeated in literally millions of places but are all unique and subtly individual.
These both do pull off very different effects with the same treatment. Jason probably was inspiored by AA, but so am I - inspiration is no crime. I think he definately showed experimentation from what they did though and created something that is pretty good...although I don't think its his best.
Lastly, Mr. Apparatus was the coolest in being understanding to the winds of inspoiration... keep up the good work!
  2002-12-09 19:51:31
Platinum RichSend Platinum Rich a message :   also, the similarity to the aa poster, whether intentional or not is an interesting commentary on the lack of originality within those scenes.   2002-12-09 19:29:30
Platinum RichSend Platinum Rich a message :   it represents the feminization of the male in society. it fits indie and emo perfectly. no balls and generic.   2002-12-09 19:08:50
SashSend Sash a message :   well, i may as well post a comment on this poster (since everyone else already has). in this megatech high-turbo ultrafast industrial era, gig posters that have this mellow soothing feel (like AA's etc) can be seen as having a built-in irony. i mean, culturally, we're way beyond mellow. then again, they could be a reaction to the aforementioned high-powered onslaught. and then again, it could just be an exercise in prettiness.   2002-12-09 18:42:45
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   and i agree it means shit....   2002-12-09 18:18:41
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   hynes i know...i was being a smart ass with my whole "comment"   2002-12-09 18:14:23
seripopSend seripop a message :   skin- i'm not as thin as i used to be. baby got BACK. i really gotta say thank god for this site cause i'm like a girl right. well before i just sat there like a bump. everything was tepid but now i have my choice of middle age men to emulate and copycat so now life's great first i was kozik's parrot but i sucked up all his juice and now i'm milking art for every thought he's got once i'm ready to leave him to wither on the vine i thing i'll got for mike king he can be the intellectual humpert humpert to my sponge like lol.   2002-12-09 17:48:58
MaximumFluorideSend MaximumFluoride a message :   With the exception of the personel insults this was a great read and I may have actualy learned something from many of the posts.
I went from agreeing with one point to agreeing with another ..back and forth... excellent!!!
  2002-12-09 17:38:39
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Hynes -
My point about the pattern was that each of the two posters discussed, while similar, are using patterns to two totally different effects. Its subtle, but its there.
This is merely a comparrison / contrast used to get people to think about different ways to use patterns and grids to effectively pull off a solution.
  2002-12-09 17:35:28
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   Its not neccesarily "all this" over this poster. Again its nothing special, thats why it got commented on so much. idont think i'd "freak" if a poster i did got this reaction. it means shit.   2002-12-09 17:30:07
allenboeSend allenboe a message :   So...Jason.....ummmm....whats with the pattern?   2002-12-09 17:27:12
thinkmuleSend thinkmule a message :   so did we decide if we liked this or not?...i kid ikid....jason is going to freak when he see all this over his poster...whew....   2002-12-09 17:26:59
Steve HSend Steve H a message :   rather!   2002-12-09 17:25:07
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   I return from picking up m,y girlfriend and the design talk died...hmmm.
So, whose up for discussing linear grid systems vs. duotone hue structures?
  2002-12-09 17:23:13
skinSend skin a message :   seripop- Your very thin.   2002-12-09 17:20:56
seripopSend seripop a message :   i'm just a poor little girl thank the lord i have mr chantry to shape and mo(u)ld me.   2002-12-09 17:18:52
robschwagerSend robschwager a message :   Long as you use that gooey phone voice, I might make ya my San Francisco treat..... fag.   2002-12-09 17:18:13
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   See he cant go away. Classic. This site feeds his ego. Classic passive-agressive martyr complex. Fucker your sad. Whatre you? Like 52, 53 years old?   2002-12-09 17:16:23
kozikSend kozik a message :   heh. too bad your married trucker   2002-12-09 17:15:14
robschwagerSend robschwager a message :   "tough guy? Im no tough guy. Im a fuckin fag, basically..except I like girls."
Heh... fag.
  2002-12-09 17:13:36
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   (peeky - i'm tellin' ya! when you say 'schizophrenic', i just get all hot an sweaty and just gotta cum in that pink little mouth of yers. pm me! we'll set a date)   2002-12-09 17:13:17
stinkbaitSend stinkbait a message :   "the chantry bandwagon? gimme a fucking break im more than capable of thinking for myself."
No argument here. You do however jump on everything Art rips up. Like clockwork.
My point to both of you is back your shit up right off the bat. Statements like "A fuckin ape could do this " or "it looks like really shitty wallpaper or a blanket from walmart" is chickenshit. If you praise something you can say you like it and that's that. If you are criticizing do the artist a favor and tell them what really doesn't work so they can choose to improve if need be. Your approach is always negative and you are "too punk" and "too cool" and "too good" to acknowledge something like this. If you went to art school you should know some things about design and be able compose a solid crit vs. "I hate it"
  2002-12-09 17:13:04
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   Kozik read up on it. Its classic borderline schizophrenic behaviour. That guy thinks hes a mindfucker but he isnt good enough to pull it off flawlessly. Sad sad sad.   2002-12-09 17:12:13
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   Classic schizophrenic behaviour. Confronted with revealed diagnosis of his mental state, he runs. He veils the shit in humor and haughty 'Ive taught you a lesson and if you think real hard youll get it' behavior. Obvious shit. Youre a sad old man who hasnt done an innovative thing in over a decade. Youse guys who sit around and eat this guys guff should get a clue. You work more than he does!   2002-12-09 17:10:11
kozikSend kozik a message :   Iit seems to me that there is some elusive 'reward' you feel is/has been denied you...that is at the bottom of all your commentary.
what is it?
I mean..I'm a narcissistic pig and all..but you my man have a Martyr Complex of staggering proportions.
  2002-12-09 17:08:54
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   yaknow, magnifico is dead on. i'm bushed (no pun intended). i gotta do something else for awhile.
thanks for the dilaog. i enjoyed this a LOT. i hope you guys out there use it positivly and not just hate me (like is the usual way it goes). there is a stuff to learn in this discussion on both sides (insults alone were worth the price of admission.) i know i did.
peekskill - it's a standing offer.
  2002-12-09 17:07:06
kozikSend kozik a message :   interesting. I tend to avoid academia myself, except for the occasional student who is doing a thesis paper on yours truly(theres been 7 so far).
Yale also uses my animated Dante film in one of their course syllabi.
I am very-anti academic..yet they seem to like me just fine.
Art..I feel that there was some sort of 'primal moment' deep in your past that wounded you somehow...
  2002-12-09 17:06:18
gun shoSend gun sho a message :   i don't have a problem with this poster. it's nothing mindblowing but I've seen people on here love much worse posters. it looks like the sort of design that's typical of the emo-post-hardcore thing, this guy's stuff reminds me of pretty much every polyvinyl records design to date, some of it works better than others. i just think these comments have turned into an excuse to shit on people and it's annoying. aside from that, look at this guy's other posters, he's obviously going for a look and i think that some of it is pretty successful.   2002-12-09 17:05:28
Mr FrumpySend Mr Frumpy a message :   I mean be honest, it is only wallpaper right? A bit like that album of ian Durys, ( I think), where they the used 16 different wallpapers for 16 different record sleeves...genius, collect em all. Like Mojo Magazine does releasing 4 covers with different beatles or stones of whatever on em... same shit inside though   2002-12-09 17:05:08
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   I cant think of one thing beneficial youve done on this site. Every conversation you start is destructive. Maybe you think thats all 'punk rock'. Youre an old man though so it comes off looking a little comical. An old jewish guy in St.Louis 'shaking up the system'...   2002-12-09 17:05:03
El Negro Magnifico!Send El Negro Magnifico! a message :   Wow. I read all of these comments. I thought I was tired BEFORE I read 'em. I'm gonna eat something.   2002-12-09 17:04:12
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   peekskill - i wanna skullfuck you, you lovely little thing. com e to daddy....   2002-12-09 17:03:25
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   speaking figuratively, franky. however, i do know a lot of people who sacrificed a big chunk of their lives dedicated to certain design artforms, only to have them usurped by academic swine. they might as well have died.   2002-12-09 17:02:32
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   Youre probably off of your meds. And your art opinions arent all encompassing. Some of them just plain suck and a few of them are just flawed.   2002-12-09 17:02:08
Steve HSend Steve H a message :   yea but not in those colours man   2002-12-09 17:01:52
kozikSend kozik a message :   uh..who died for deconstructed design?   2002-12-09 17:00:58
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   peekskill - c'mover hyeah! yoo gotta uh purdy li'l mouth...   2002-12-09 16:59:42
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   the funniest part about this 'academic swiss' style is that when computers came along and showed how easy it is (computers work on grids, ya know) that the human hand is not necessary to do swiss design (thus truly being an 'endpoint' design style) you started to see all of the major institutions start to frantically grope for new directions - postmodernism, new wave, vernacularism - all the time never acknowledging that people like us - the lowly rabble of popular culture - had beat them to the punch decades ago. so, they still don't acknowledge what we do in proper 'design history'. all 'new' innovative design ideas have salways got to emerge from the 'thinktanks' of academia. so, we get appropriated by geeks like tibor and scher and grieman etc., never even acknowledging the people who died for this crap. they think because they found it in a store somewhere they discovered a new style to name and adopt.
total crap.
  2002-12-09 16:58:49
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   "peekskill - i have no idea what or why you are talking about."
Like plastk said, I agree with Stinkbait. About you and Seri, your shadow. First she was Franks shadow now shes yours. And I now know that you are crazy. Literally mentally ill. Sick. You have obvious schizophrenic tendencies to anyone whos studied that kinda shit. You probably are on some kind of medication. Thats what Im talking about.
  2002-12-09 16:56:52
Mr FrumpySend Mr Frumpy a message :   ROFL... steve, that was incisive, well executed and appropiate. I fucking nearly spat coffee over the monitor. :-)   2002-12-09 16:56:04
Steve HSend Steve H a message :   its a kinda nowhere poster to me, way too many things have been said about it already but while i'm here i might as well add my uneducated opinion, its nice, maybe an ape could've done it but how often does that happen? and everytime the concept is what matters, not the execution, so yea, if the bands are nice, boring and effeminate then its by gigposters definition, good, or is this one different somehow?   2002-12-09 16:53:24
seripopSend seripop a message :   the chantry bandwagon? gimme a fucking break im more than capable of thinking for myself.   2002-12-09 16:51:54
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   sandard - i trul stand by my statement. a chimp can do this shit. the swiss design system is essential a standard (no pun intended) grid with clean clear (helvetica) typography adhearing to the grid. it was a design system to end all design, the final stage of human intellectual developement.
but, like hynes and plastk admirably pointed out, it is a STARTING point, not an end point.
they taught this system in schools (still do) because you CAN teach it - to ANYBODY! even the slow kids. it became 'good' design because it was all that's taught in academia.
what we are (all of us on this sight) doing is the antihesis of this sort of design. we are doing the HARD STUFF - out in the trenches. and i'll be damned if i'll see some junk like that show up here and go heralded as 'good'.
i care about this stuff. it's been my life forever.
  2002-12-09 16:51:30
seripopSend seripop a message :   ok this is why i dislike this and i'm not trying to piss in anyone's soda or be "negi" while in art scoool i took a few classes desing students where advised to take : fibres and screenprinting in fiberes in was all the 3 d design students, in print all the 2 d. in BOTH classes ALL the fucking desing majors turned in stuff that loked this. no matter what the assingment was. other students would do weird cool stufff with images or text or drawinge design students did this. all of them u'd walk in the claas room and spot from a distance who were the design majors and who were the studio majors cause while the studio kids all had pretty varied and personal stuff the design students work was all indentical pretty floral paterns they either scaned from wallpaper of fabrick or put together with clip art and photo shop. in the years i was there i must have seen DOZENS of projects that looked EXACTLY like this. then when i started doing posters last year stuff thjat looked like this started poping up everywhere. kinda the devil girl of the moment on the wall of my city dozens of posters identical to this but all but diffrent people in shows the same yet while a good devil girl can have spark, sexiness and attititude all this has is "oh pretty" how bland yeah maybe it fits the dull ,pretty music- god knows there is no shortage of THAT in today's indie rock just when i look at this i don't see any of the things that draw me to a work of art poster or other and those are wit, originality, spark, personality and freshness. alot of things on here i like cause i see them as cool fresh ideas get dissed for not being "well excuted" this isn't new OR espcially well excuted. and yet there are posters using similar patterns that work ten times better on this site why?   2002-12-09 16:50:30
kozikSend kozik a message :   OK replace Jermaines posters with some other persons stuff you dislike...aand answer the question.
apart from being a little mesmerized by 19th century European culture Jermaine is OK by me.
  2002-12-09 16:49:02
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   It does nothing for me but I can see what it might be trying to communicate, if it is a curtain and the bands are boring/effeminate then the CONCEPT is kind of good. But as far as being good design -wise, its nothing special. First it looks like some previous poster, second: This is just a repeat pattern (barring the 2 lines of type) A Repeat pattern while being a fundamental of design, is not a design. Its a basic principle.   2002-12-09 16:48:26
kozikSend kozik a message :   well..seeing as how a 5 dollar DONATION is requested I bet like only 12 people showed up.
that donation deal means one thing-no one cares.
  2002-12-09 16:46:21
stinkbaitSend stinkbait a message :   Art you are a sneaky bastard that's for sure. This was your first, highly inflammatory, comment:
"a fucking ape can do this shit."
Then Chloe climbed on the Chantry bandwagon started spewing her typical bile. Thus prompting my comments. Now You have turned this into a genuine discussion about design. (which is awesome) But why do you have to be such a curmudgeonly fuck about it?
This guy is good and if he's like me he looks up to you quite a bit. Why intentionally try to crush his will to produce by telling him an ape can do work as good as he can? This may not be his best stuff but for someone with five poster on here he's pretty fuckin' consentient with really great potential.
I've been defending you and your art offline to people ever since you went off on that Volante poster and it's been really tough. Why don't you lead off with some decent constructive critique sometime and have a civil discussion about what you know and how you could teach? Why should anyone listen to a nutter rant and shit on stuff at first only to finally get around to an actual discussion. You and Chloe really discredit yourselves with your approach. I'd love to learn more from what you have to offer but I get tired of wadding through the crap to get the good stuff.
  2002-12-09 16:46:02
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   ah! it's about jermaine, huh? just because i don't like jermaine, you take it upon yourself to try to trash me every chance you get, huh? very clever of you!
did it ever occur to you that just maybe i may be right to dislike jermaine? like maybe he's been a real prick to me for a long long time, and that maybe he isn't a prick to you at all? ever think that could be a possibility, frank?
  2002-12-09 16:45:49
jimboSend jimbo a message :   If there is a plane full of interior designers or hair dressers looking for me, this one hands down!   2002-12-09 16:44:53
kozikSend kozik a message :   tough guy? Im no tough guy. Im a fuckin fag, basically..except I like girls.   2002-12-09 16:43:57
allenboeSend allenboe a message :   If this poster recieved a fraction of the attention from its intended audience that it has recieved here then it was a really good poster! I guess that's why they teach monkeys that this is good design... look at the response. Even if it does suck I bet we all know now what bands are playing.   2002-12-09 16:43:38
kozikSend kozik a message :   lets see.... lets say you where starnded on a desert island and had to choose between a shelter that looked like this or one that was covered with say...Jermaine Rogers paintings.
you can only choose one. which do you choose?
  2002-12-09 16:43:08
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Damn, 156 comments! Jason Munn is one lucky bastard. All because of wrapping paper that ain't minty.   2002-12-09 16:42:49
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   so, you try to fuck me because you read your agenda into my statements?
i'm really tired of your bullshit, too, frank. tough guy. make me puke.
  2002-12-09 16:42:30
kozikSend kozik a message :   I only jumped you when you started gettin all uppity.
all power to the people's soviet!
  2002-12-09 16:41:06
DWITTSend DWITT a message :   I'm with you Art, I don't like it either.   2002-12-09 16:40:48
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i won't let this be because i clearly stated that i thought this was a bad poster and clearly explained why i thought that. then everybody here, including you frank, saw fit to jump my ass and try to give me a good reamjob. on top of that you didn't manage to get it wet, so now you're acting all innocent and coy. me, i feel used. maybe a little raped.   2002-12-09 16:39:21
kozikSend kozik a message :   why cant it just be?
stop laying your Fascist Category trip on me maaaaaaaaaan..
got any weed?
  2002-12-09 16:37:02
DWITTSend DWITT a message :   I bet this tastes like yogurt. Like a raspberry chocolate yogurt. Yick.   2002-12-09 16:35:32
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   ok. so does that make this a GOOD poster or a BAD poster?   2002-12-09 16:35:18
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Art, I am not arguing that..rather I am saying that pattern and form gives the possibility of the chaos. much how you were mentioning earlier that by knowing rules and how they work you can effectively break them to gain specific or percieved effect, like that of chaos...even though the chaos sits on a measurable form of a piece of paper...or other measurable substrate.   2002-12-09 16:34:10
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plasyk - please learn that a difference is not a condemnation. i'm not condemning you or your ideas. i'm disgreeing with them. out of this encounter will come knowledge. calling you a fuckface would be a condemnation. i'm not calling you anything at all.   2002-12-09 16:33:30
kozikSend kozik a message :   I say cut to the chase and slap some juicy ta-tas on there.   2002-12-09 16:32:29
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   yes, it's true that a pattern IS a design. but conversely design is NOT a pattern. to say that all design stems from pattern eliminates chaos - the punks most trusted friend. with the element chance comes humanity. to say that pattern is the source of this language form is to eliminate chance.   2002-12-09 16:31:18
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   which one dear sir, please be explicit in your condemnations.   2002-12-09 16:30:14
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   Not THE fundamental of design, but one of the fundamentals with things like scale & contrast.   2002-12-09 16:29:45
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   standard -
seriously, now you see how by using say a pattern element, you could break it form and get a whoile other effect.
Holy shit, were talking about design!
  2002-12-09 16:29:36
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk - i couldn't disagree more with your narrow statement.   2002-12-09 16:28:52
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   art - i too have found that love for you. i love you art.   2002-12-09 16:28:29
standardSend standard a message :   I think a skidmark down the center of the poster would create a dynamic bit of negative space.   2002-12-09 16:27:55
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   from pattern all more complex design grows from.   2002-12-09 16:27:46
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   but pattern is one of the first things tought, even to children, on how to understand and relate to design. a pattern is a design.   2002-12-09 16:27:11
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk - quit shitting on this poster!   2002-12-09 16:26:53
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   put this pattern on some little girls panties and no one is saying a word about it.   2002-12-09 16:26:05
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   repeating patterns are NOT the fundamentals of design. they are the fundamentals of pattern. design is not necessarily a pattern.   2002-12-09 16:25:57
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   oh. i thought you were saying that you read in a book that this is what good design looks like and that you were defending it because of what the book said.
sorry. my bad.
  2002-12-09 16:24:54
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   exactly!   2002-12-09 16:24:45
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   Repeat patterns are fundamentals of design.   2002-12-09 16:23:46
jimboSend jimbo a message :   This would look good with a red bow.   2002-12-09 16:23:45
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Just to show how poopular patterns and the like are, and how relavent this is I will point you to a website members of Factor27 have helped to create.
  2002-12-09 16:23:02
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i was referring to plastk in my last post.   2002-12-09 16:23:01
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   huh? me no get why you said that.   2002-12-09 16:22:32
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   If these bands sound like this is telling me they are going to sound like - then it IS a GOOD concept. Anyone care to admit they know what these bands sound like. I bet my description is pretty close to accurate.   2002-12-09 16:22:11
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   I like this poster alot.
I am just trying to point out the commercial value of layout. which, by the way, both this and the AA do very very well.
I don't see graphic design and the world of commercial art as something to be afraid is me and I am it. Those are facts I can't runaway from. I like a well designed book cover as much as a well deigned stove top or sweatshirt. I am not scared to admit that.
Just looking at the graphic design world outside of posters but in relationship with them.
  2002-12-09 16:21:14
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   yer right! that IS a concept! so, there ya go!
is it a GOOD concept? (heh)
  2002-12-09 16:20:39
jimboSend jimbo a message :   It's telling me to buy a WhopperŽ.   2002-12-09 16:20:36
HYNESSend HYNES a message :   The headliner is the CURTAINS, and this thing looks like a curtain. The bands (who i know nothing about) are probably kind of boring and possibly a little effeminate. Simple, there's your concept. Plus if you go look at the latest comments posted pages this poster is repeated so many times it does look like wallpaper. I still think its a curtain. DUH!   2002-12-09 16:19:15
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   hey plastk - quit shitting on this poster!   2002-12-09 16:15:41
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Someone should try this with hot sauce bottles.   2002-12-09 16:14:46
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   ...that's ro-A-ch motel   2002-12-09 16:14:30
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   youre right! I could see these as some kind of japanese or latin american candied sweet tart....or colored scandanavian chocolates...or maybe hawaiin roch motels that double as air fresheners.
Would be a cool for a rose show too.
Speaking of patterns...this is also used for comparison of items say a poster with peppers of all kinds on it. ...anywho...
  2002-12-09 16:13:42
jimboSend jimbo a message :   I hat to waffle on this, but if it smells like tic tacs I like this again.   2002-12-09 16:13:06
kozikSend kozik a message :   tic-tacs   2002-12-09 16:09:48
jimboSend jimbo a message :   What do you think this smells like?   2002-12-09 16:09:05
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   this has seven columns so the pattern created is symmetric thus the X created in the middle of the image.
Two completely different ways of utilizing pattern into form and form into pattern.
I only mention this because it is something anyone can play with if they realize its there...I wonder if either of these artist specifically arranged thier numbered rows of elements in a particular order for a specific effect...if so - then mad props to both.
  2002-12-09 16:07:38
kozikSend kozik a message :   'because the Bible says its so'
no joy in badinage Arturo?
  2002-12-09 16:05:35
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   and this is still a bad poster.   2002-12-09 16:01:29
kozikSend kozik a message :   rules..I have laways viewed my own rules as the result of my limitations. as my tastes change and work changes(for better or worse I have no real idea) my own rules change. Some day I hope to discard them all.
AD for RS?
big whoop. Banal.
anyway...all I can say is that my abilities are limited, I never had any rules to break other than my own ones and I have done just fine in our tiny world of pop advertising.
But perhaps you are right. I certainly cannot state anything with certainty, as the world is ever changing..except for the basics. We do not really deal with the basics. we sit around on our fat butts drawing purty shit and complaining about the system while we have NEVER like..worked a rice paddy.
so its all bullshit.
  2002-12-09 16:00:08
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i used to admire roger black until he started making stupid rules. i should never have used the word 'rule' here. it's not exactly what i meant, and everybody here reacts strongly to that word. i do too.   2002-12-09 15:58:13
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   oh, amd peolpe shit on poster all the time. it's one of the things that people do. we ALL do it. to condemn one person for saying something ranking another poster is the most human of acts, not to be denied. it's why this site exists, it's why you folks all come her. to say otherwise is a total hypocrisy.
but then, i LIKE hypocrisy. it's funny.
  2002-12-09 15:55:39
maynardSend maynard a message :   Roger Black was the AD at Rolling Stone for some years... he's best known (I would say) for being big on rules. And breaking them. He wrote somewhere about the 10 rules. for instance: "Rule #1: Your first color is white, your second color is black, your third color is red." Kinda like that. "Never track all cap text".... etc.   2002-12-09 15:53:35
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   ahhh, but the only purpose of rules is to break them! however, you first need to know the rules in order to break them with reason.
roger black once looked at my portfolio and said - "gee, it's really cool to see an entire portfolio built around a style that was popular in california for two weeks three years ago."
i never thanked him for that.
frank, i'm not trying to hem your lard in, i'm trying to help folks understand that there are all kinds of differences here that exist for specific reasons, not just taste and whims.
  2002-12-09 15:53:03
standardSend standard a message :   This would make a pretty quilt.   2002-12-09 15:51:40
kozikSend kozik a message :   because I hate psuedo-Marxist claptrap. its a hypocritical front.
Your using art for political means. I do not like that.
art should be free of all rules.
thats the point.
you got too many rules. way too many.
Plus, I love you.
Anyway...whos Roger Black?
did he have 'ideas'?
  2002-12-09 15:50:20
jimboSend jimbo a message :   This does kind of remind me of the wallpaper in the Pussy Cat Theater bathroom. What a great glory hole they had.   2002-12-09 15:50:19
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Art, thats cool...I dont have a problem with someone not liking something...its the blatant shitting on it that is lame...I think atleast attempting to be positive about the fact that people are creating as opposed to doing nothing is good for all of us as a community...
There are many posters I don't like on this site...but I LOVE the fact that everyone is making them...and I wish them the best and only hope that everyone continues to create and express...its the only real fight there is.
  2002-12-09 15:49:03
maynardSend maynard a message :   Just pointing out that just about everything you've said here about what design "is", sounds very much like Black's 10 Rules... nothing more.   2002-12-09 15:46:57
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   anyone notice the sublimanal pink X that brings your eye to the center of this piece, I just realized it...I can't stop my eyes.   2002-12-09 15:45:37
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   uhg! roger black! now i have to kill myself! uhg!   2002-12-09 15:45:26
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i'm not threatened by this poster. i just don't like - and i tried to explain why. so what?
frank, you always seem threatened by damn near eveything i say here. why?
  2002-12-09 15:44:34
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   but its bloody jimbo, I was sure you would like it.   2002-12-09 15:43:59
maynardSend maynard a message :   Mr. Chantry seems more and more like Roger Black in this discussion... While Mr. Kozik seems to be taking the more Warhol aspect... Screw us all! If it works, it works. Purile semantics, lofty "theory", and other bullshit aside. If it communicated the band's message and gets people to the show, isn't that enough?   2002-12-09 15:43:44
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Maybe Art was asked by the artist instead of the venue to do this poster.   2002-12-09 15:43:10
jimboSend jimbo a message :   I like this better than his fish. That one feels briney.   2002-12-09 15:41:31
kozikSend kozik a message :   I am discussing.
You seem very threatened by this poster.
  2002-12-09 15:41:08
kozikSend kozik a message :   by the way...I prefer the term 'Paternally Challenged'   2002-12-09 15:40:23
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i'm not stupid, frank. it was a discussion. if it bothers you so much, don't participate.
now go enjoy yer little poster...
  2002-12-09 15:40:00
kozikSend kozik a message :   I got a new bodywash and my cornhole feels very minty indeed.   2002-12-09 15:39:19
kozikSend kozik a message :   I can enjoy this without wanting to do it.
variety is the spice of life.
its like you got a hold of one idea once and just cant let it go.
the world is HUGE.
  2002-12-09 15:38:48
jimboSend jimbo a message :   You bastards wouldn't know minty if it cornholed ya.   2002-12-09 15:38:11
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   boy, i really got you boys going! tell you what i'll buy you copies of this thing for xmas. you can hang them in your studios and make your work look just like it. it'll be easy.   2002-12-09 15:36:27
supersuckerSend supersucker a message :   Art does kind of get pounced on but he holds his own. Im sure he doesnt care that i say that. Seripop just chimes in to whatever Chantry says. Art does have interesting points. But I think design and decor can be the same. Had to put in my 2 cents.   2002-12-09 15:36:02
kozikSend kozik a message :   Semantics are such a bore.   2002-12-09 15:35:30
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   design is the art of deliberate decoration   2002-12-09 15:35:04
kozikSend kozik a message :   design enhances the functionality of a piece decoration embellishes it.   2002-12-09 15:34:56
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Its graphic design, not an answer to world does as much to me as anything you have done...rehashed, yes - as is most of yours...treated in a well designed manner, yes - as is most of yours...
Myabe you should get into Performance Art and let your voice be heard...?
  2002-12-09 15:34:38
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank - how is what you said any different from what i'm talking about?   2002-12-09 15:34:13
kozikSend kozik a message :   a nice form or line or palette is not a political device. That is the road to Auschwitz and Siberia.   2002-12-09 15:34:13
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   do you folks agree there is a difference between 'design' and 'decoration'?   2002-12-09 15:33:21
kozikSend kozik a message :   sometimes aposter is just a...poster.
not everyine has or needs some vast dialectic framework to work within.
all you commentary reeks of psuedo-marxist rhetoric...and it REALLY bugs me that you apply it to the most innocent of pleasures-pop music.
I do artwork to ESCAPE that drivel.
  2002-12-09 15:33:14
jimboSend jimbo a message :   I thought the best design was one that got you chicks. Like puppies or something.   2002-12-09 15:33:11
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   the best design is a languge - a communication between viewer and designer (or 'artist or illustrator or whatever you want). does anybody here disagree with that? if not, then this says nothing according to every single post.   2002-12-09 15:32:20
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk =
you just added a desription. you haven't really said what any of this thing means about anything (except 'harmony','balance', etc.). why do this thing if it does nothing?
  2002-12-09 15:30:30
kozikSend kozik a message :   why do you assume im talking about you?   2002-12-09 15:29:52
kozikSend kozik a message :   I like it because its simple and visually pleasing. My taste in visuals is broad I like your stuff, illustration AND this sort of thing. this IS wallpaper. craft only. theres no political message. I like that. Its strictly decorative. It also looks very sort of a Kimono pattern. I like the colors. they are wrong but work great. I like the proportions of feels solid, yet light at the same time.
I do not need a message. its visually pleasing.
  2002-12-09 15:29:23
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank - exactly how do you think you managed to show "i have no clothes"? c'mon, dude. don't go giving yourself so much credit.
peekskill - you particularly cracked me up when you posted such a vicious and nasty remark and then accuse me of 'negativity'. very funny!
  2002-12-09 15:28:47
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   I like the pattern form created out of the negative space. a minimal design has the ability to highlight itesms such as negative space quite well...the two tones of the font colors also add to the balance...I do like the pinback poster even more though...   2002-12-09 15:27:21
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank - you only seem to be describing it, not really seeing it. WHY do you like it so much? i really want to know. your reasons may actauall y help me see this thing in a different way (although i can't imagine how).   2002-12-09 15:26:37
kozikSend kozik a message :   'mommy he isnt wearing any clothes!'
  2002-12-09 15:26:19
jimboSend jimbo a message :   The use of negative space is what this is really about. That and minty.   2002-12-09 15:25:27
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   of course he did. i read it, too. but the constant attacks on me because i don't think this is a good poster are sorta silly, don't you think. i swear, sometimes some of you guys only come alive when you can attack me. cracks me up.   2002-12-09 15:24:46
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   he said ditto art, that means he is speaking the same sentiments as stinkbait was...add that to your permanent record as well.   2002-12-09 15:23:53
kozikSend kozik a message :   ok...I like the bold chunk of weird brown in relationship to the chrysanthemums. the line weight and colors of the flowers lend this a sort of subtle shimmer. I like the fact that theres a line of flowers on the bottm which really sort of finish this off. I like the compressed font, I like the bizarre yet tonally pleasing pallette. I like the precision and sterility.
IO hope its like 4 foot tall.
  2002-12-09 15:23:22
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   he did art, as did stinkbait.
and by the way - I entered your promoter rule into my databank too.
  2002-12-09 15:22:45
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   peekskill - i have no idea what or why you are talking about.   2002-12-09 15:22:29
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Atleast it gets a reaction. Damn 60+ comments. I dream of that kind of attention.   2002-12-09 15:21:43
uncle charlieSend uncle charlie a message :   i actually would like to see a poster like this that you could tile next to itself so it could become wallpaper on the side of a building..   2002-12-09 15:21:19
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank - quit talking about me and talk about the poster.   2002-12-09 15:20:54
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   your definition has just entered my permanent record.   2002-12-09 15:19:56
uncle charlieSend uncle charlie a message :   pretty   2002-12-09 15:19:53
kozikSend kozik a message :   this is a good poster because it is completely of its time right now. flatness is good right now. the piece is balanced and harmonic. the color choice is ironic. it's very sterility lends it an appeal.
I was immediately drawn to the thumbnail.
i like this for the same reason I like a nice area of tile in a foyer.
it seems to be restrained and controlled and smooth. perhaps the bands are too, who knows?
anyway who are you , Hitler?
Entarte Kunst Meister?
not everything has to be some decontructed 1950's psuedo intellectual kitsch collage.
  2002-12-09 15:19:50
MaximumFluorideSend MaximumFluoride a message :   This poster is definetly not my taste but you know whatever. I'm obviously not the person to judge it.
I allways try to make posters that I think the band will like. That way I'm pretty sure the people who would come to the show will also like it. if I'm doing a poster for a band I don't know much about I go find some of there music and educate myself some. i find it helps get me in the right frame of mind for creating a poster that will work. Maybe thats the case with this popster.
  2002-12-09 15:19:23
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   a dumpster diver is quite different than a dumpster hound...a dumpster hound LIVES LITERALLY IN DUMPSTERS, if you do - then you are a bum. Not that that's bad...just is what it is...I met my first dumpster hounds behind PIZZA CLASSICS in Austin...30 year olds who said they had been in Vietnam and shit like that while smelling more like they had been drinking lighter fluid...or better yet, huffing gold flake paint.   2002-12-09 15:18:52
peekskill avengerSend peekskill avenger a message :   "I have TONS of respect for your output Art and I also dig what Seripop's accomplished in such a short time but you two collectively bring more negativity to this site than everyone else combined. That's bullshit and a waste of everyone's energy. Why not take your track records and talent and do something positive? At least this guy is creating SOMETHING.
This poster doesn't suck half as much as your shitty attitudes do."
  2002-12-09 15:18:16
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   phil - DAMN! I FORGOT!!! wjere is that bastard?   2002-12-09 15:16:37
philaarts.comSend a message :   good can be determined by only 1 fact
what richiegoodtimes says...
  2002-12-09 15:15:41
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   good and bad are extremely subjective. i've given my reasons WHY i think it's a bad poster. aside from PRETTY, nobody's been able to give a single reason why it's a GOOD poster. are you folks just trying to be nice?   2002-12-09 15:14:58
kozikSend kozik a message :   sometimes just being pretty is nice.
I suppose the true yest is whether or not the bands where pleased by it.
remember bands? the ONLY reason posters exist?
  2002-12-09 15:13:18
maynardSend maynard a message :   Who can say what is "good" and what is "bad"? Oh I know, the doorman! A "good" poster gets asses in the door. If it appeals to us visually or whatever, it becomes collectable art. And that's all I gots to say about that... just an opinion of course.   2002-12-09 15:12:00
philaarts.comSend a message :   yeah.. thanks... i really was trying to get yer point... thanks!
i wanna bang martha btw..
  2002-12-09 15:08:33
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastk - actually i AM a dumpster hound. but i'm not a bum. i work very hard at everything i do. maybe too hard.   2002-12-09 15:08:16
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   when i say 'easy'. i'm certainly NOT referring to the difficulty of execution. the best work is often the 'simplest' work. but that simplicity can be extraordinarily deceptive and can mask an extremely complex and incisive concept.
this poster is easy because is has NO concept. it's just a pretty pretty that could say any band you want, or 'buy lima beans' or martha stewart christmas' or 'vote for hillary'. it's easy because it's generic and pointless.
have i clarified my remark?
  2002-12-09 15:06:57
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   jimbo - minty with a pinch of urine?   2002-12-09 15:04:21
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Art - it merely rhymmed, i trust you aren't a dumpster hound...though I wouldn't hold it against you.   2002-12-09 15:03:31
philaarts.comSend a message :   the one thing that i keep thinking art is when you refer to it being an "easy" poster to do... agreed, it probably is.. or was.. as you pointed out, i can do it..
but i find alot of GREAT posters here that fall under "great but simple" you know?
ps. you arent a bum.. :P
  2002-12-09 15:03:11
jimboSend jimbo a message :   It ain't as minty as it looks. That's all I'm saying.   2002-12-09 15:02:21
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   plastik -
totally fair!
(except the 'bum' part.)
  2002-12-09 15:01:06
jasoncrossSend jasoncross a message :   Art - THIS IS A GOOD POSTER, so there you bum.   2002-12-09 15:00:33
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank -
by that criteria, there's a lot of good posters on this site. heh.
  2002-12-09 15:00:33
kozikSend kozik a message :   the only good poster is a dead poster.   2002-12-09 14:58:56
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeph -
so there, chum!
  2002-12-09 14:58:00
philaarts.comSend a message :   pink and brown... its a very cool combo..
peveto... eat me :P
  2002-12-09 14:56:19
JephSend Jeph a message :   Especially those of you who can't take critism yerself.   2002-12-09 14:55:43
Joe KonopkaSend Joe Konopka a message :   i hate the idea of using flowers but this looks subtle, yet crisp and delicate   2002-12-09 14:55:28
JephSend Jeph a message :   I was waiting for someone to go off. Nicely done "Stinkbait". I agree with you, I certainly don't like at lot of stuff on this site, but I think a person can say they're not fond of something or don't like something without calling it "junk" or "wallpaper" or whatever. Someone put all lot of work into this and because you don't like it, doesn't make it shit. NOBODY on this site puts out stuff that everyone likes. I believe the term is "Constructive Critism" You don't have to like it but don't shit on it.   2002-12-09 14:54:44
kozikSend kozik a message :   I kinda like it myself. dont know why. I think its the colors.   2002-12-09 14:47:54
stinkbaitSend stinkbait a message :   Man what a bunch of downers you guys are. Does anyone bashing this know jackshit about the bands? This could be 100% applicable to what it's promoting. This is just like when people flipped out on the Nocturnal Show Print piece with Art calling it "dreadful 'designerly' crap." That design was perfect for what they were promoting maybe this is too. I don't know The Curtains or any of these bands but in looking at Jason's other posters you can tell he's placing some thought in the concept and how it applies to the show or band.
I agree it's a little too close to the AA piece for me but this isn't a bad design or gigposter. The colours work well and the attention to the layout, spatial relationships and font choice are also well done.
I have TONS of respect for your output Art and I also dig what Seripop's accomplished in such a short time but you two collectively bring more negativity to this site than everyone else combined. That's bullshit and a waste of everyone's energy. Why not take your track records and talent and do something positive? At least this guy is creating SOMETHING.
This poster doesn't suck half as much as your shitty attitudes do.
  2002-12-09 14:43:47
philaarts.comSend a message :   its symetrical... pink and brown is cool...
  2002-12-09 13:36:32
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Don't lick the screen. It ain't minty.   2002-12-09 13:18:55
JGexSend JGex a message :   I didn't say Chloe wasn't right.... I didn't like it the first time around. :o)   2002-12-09 13:17:18
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Bleckkkkk!!!! You're right! These aren't minty. But I am starting to feel woozy....   2002-12-09 12:47:21
DeckerSend Decker a message :   Those aren't mints they're those annoying decorative soaps that smell of corn silk and lavender. How could be so blind to it's bold statement. "You are all dirty WHORES!"   2002-12-09 12:44:27
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   minty, but not 'fresh'   2002-12-09 12:37:51
jimboSend jimbo a message :   I still say it's minty.   2002-12-09 12:34:46
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   chloe's right . it really does look like shitty wallpaper. perhaps what you'd see in a cheap furnished flat in charing cross in london...   2002-12-09 12:33:56
JGexSend JGex a message :   OH yea, your books shipped a week or so ago.... :o)   2002-12-09 12:29:45
JGexSend JGex a message :   Chloe, didn't you pm some folks pissed off that they were making fun of one of your posters like a week or so ago?
If one of us said something like "it looks like really shitty wallpaper or a blanket from walmart" on one of your posters, you'd be postal.
  2002-12-09 12:29:13
jimboSend jimbo a message :   Looks minty.   2002-12-09 11:47:20
seripopSend seripop a message :   i still hate it i find it dull and uninspired .   2002-12-09 11:46:19
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   seems to me this particular style pretty much pooped out when modernism keeled it just looks 'retro'.
isn't it funny that modernism has just become another 'retro' style?
  2002-12-09 09:45:15
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   "not the most compelling design..."
that's all i'm trying to say.
that, and the fact that this is still what is considered excellent design in the "wonderful world of graphic design."
  2002-12-09 09:43:35
Michael ApparatusSend Michael Apparatus a message :   Right. And as designers I would bet the majority of us have been guilty of "copycatting" before and probably will again with out that intention.
I don't know anything about the bands on this poster so I guess I can't really say if it makes sense or not. I agree it's not the most compelling design...
  2002-12-09 09:42:12
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i guess you're still talking about "copycatting" (intentional or otherwise.) i'm not talking about that.
we've pretty much worn that particular topic down to the bone on this site.
  2002-12-09 09:38:52
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   michael - what's your point? i don't get it.   2002-12-09 09:35:12
DaveGinkSend DaveGink a message :   Ouch. Hate huh? Wow.
It doesn't do anything for me personally, but I can't imagine actually hating it.
>>>It looks like really shitty wallpaper or a blanket from walmart not deep , interesting, smart or fun. meh meh meh i HATE it.<<<<
  2002-12-09 09:34:24
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   but you get my point. this isn't really design - it's geometry as decoration. it has no narrative value - nothing to say to anyone except people who make things look pretty. seems to me that if there's one thing that these gigposters do is challenge the viewer, to attempt interaction, to inspire feelings or thought.
this poster just sits there like a lump. it takes no real creative insight to do this poster. anybody on this site could have done it. nobody bothers to because there is NO personal creative challenge to it. even AA says so.
  2002-12-09 09:33:16
Michael ApparatusSend Michael Apparatus a message :   Oh, you know, give this fella a break. He may have not even known he was ripping off one of our posters. I know I've inadvertently ripped off other posters before...wait...I'll show you...   2002-12-09 09:32:58
philaarts.comSend a message :   marthas towels rule..
i understand what you are saying art, and i totally respect your opinion... you are nutty, but you know stuff...
but one thing that can be said ALOT of posters that get praise here can also be done by anyone.. u know? ie your sister etc..
  2002-12-09 09:28:21
seripopSend seripop a message :   hip to be bland?   2002-12-09 09:26:38
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   suddenly, it's kinda funny! i wonder if it's some sort of way too subtle commentary on consumer society and our collective slavery to shopping????
  2002-12-09 09:26:31
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   chloe - you may be right! i think this was ripped-off from martha stewarts' christmas selections!   2002-12-09 09:25:15
seripopSend seripop a message :   it looks like really shitty wallpaper or a blanket from walmart not deep , interesting, smart or fun. meh meh meh i HATE it.   2002-12-09 09:22:45
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   i'd have to go back and look at the other poster, but i think they are not very smart or talented posters. dave, YOU could do this poster. my SISTER could do this poster. so, i don't think it's very special. pretty? absolutely! (i'd hang it in my bathroom). good (as i define 'good')? not really.   2002-12-09 09:20:32
philaarts.comSend a message :   so both in your opinion are crappy posters?   2002-12-09 09:15:21
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   this kind of layout is what they teach in university design programs as 'good' design. a fucking ape can do this shit.
an instructor from the university of washington design department (about as consevative a design program as exists - they used to teach my work in class as how NOT to do deaign. they held me up a shinning bad example) was in my studio one day (a long story). he was curious about what i did. i showed him a copy of mu "instant litter" book and talked about how great i thought punk stuff was. he flipped through it, occaisionally stopping, staring, finally he stammered out, "But.... it's just.... so.......UGLY."
he really thinks design exists to impose order on a chaotic world and that beautiful was the highest called of the designer.
his work looked exactly like this poster.
  2002-12-09 09:12:58
jason head of stateSend jason head of state a message :   I am not sure how anyone who submits work on this site can execute this poster with a clean conscience. I think its funny that the layout and the premise is what seems to have been 'borrowed' and not AA's type/color sensitivity or concept. Just sayin' is all.   2002-12-09 09:06:14
Dusty!Send Dusty! a message :   ow, i was just gonna post all that. its kinda weird, they took the trouble to use your idea, but they totally blew it, AA's colors are so much richer.   2002-12-09 08:19:23
Michael ApparatusSend Michael Apparatus a message :   Hey yeah. This looks like one of our posters.   2002-12-09 08:15:51
philaarts.comSend a message :   this looks very similar to a poster i think like with circles a few months back.. i cant remember. im sure someone is dorkier and can remember.. prehaps an aa poster?
  2002-12-09 06:53:27
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